Talk:Ryūji Bando

Move page (Ryūji Bando→Ryuji Bando)

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not change it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No more changes should be made to this discussion.

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According to official site

• Japan Football Association Official site
• J. League Official site (#11)
• Cerezo Osaka Official site
• Ryuji Bando Official site

--Japan Football (talk) 14:48, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Websites often remove diacritics from names. However that is often a mistake. They are often needed for english speakers to properly pronounce a name. -DJSasso (talk) 14:52, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Please notice that some English websites do use the macron, including Bando, Ryūji. --Horeki (talk) 23:33, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

• Support because the several websites listed by Japan Football are persuasive. The use of the macron in romaji is somewhat variable, not stable. --Horeki (talk) 13:16, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Romaji

Please see Talk:Ryōta Tsuzuki#Move page (Ryōta Tsuzuki→Ryota Tsuzuki) --Horeki (talk) 20:06, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Please see my comment on Talk:Kōji_Nakata. Thanks, Gotanda (talk) 21:57, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Gotanda, your argument does not hit the center of the target. Your comments at Talk:Kōji_Nakata have framed a general defense of the macron across all articles.

Please re-focus your thinking. This proposed move is about one article only --simple:Ryūji Bando.

Our project's overall support for the macron is not disputed. As a general rule, we do support the use macrons in our project, but I do not see how the macron is a good thing in this one article about a living person.

The underlying policy of all Wikipedias is to "follow" the decision-making of reliable sources.

JapanFootball has provided several reliable sources which support this change. For me, it is enough. If a consensus among reliable sources verifieded the use of a macron in the name of this Japanese athlete, that would be different. Further research informs my support for the proposed move:

• France/FootballDatabase.eu -- no macron in Ryuji Bando
• Germany/Transfermakt.co.uk -- no macron in Ryuji Bando
• Netherlands/Soccerway -- no macron in Ryuji Bando
• Switzerland/FIFA.com -- no macron in Ryuji Bando
• UK/Guardian.co.uk -- no macron no macron in Ryuji Bando
• UK/Telegraph.co.uk -- no macron in Ryuji Bando
• US/NYTimes.com -- no macron in Ryuji Bando
• US/Soccernet.espn.go.com -- no macron in Ryuji Bando

The justification for the use of a macron is not found in these sources. However, there is at least one cited source which uses a macron. NationalFootballTeams.com is a German website.

Why is this single German source considered more persuasive than the other cited sources? --Horeki (talk) 14:47, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Living person

The use of a diacritic in the title of this article about a living person requires us to be careful and thoughtful.

Our decision-making must be based on specifics, not generalities. In addition to the sources cited above, please consider the "official website" of this living person:

• Japan/播戸竜二 Official blog -- no macron in Ryuji Bando

I do not understand why the macron is considered "best" in this specific article? Will someone please explain this.

Why is any source considered more persuasive than the personal website of a living person?

Perhaps it is helpful to consider en:Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Japan-related articles (en:WP:MOS-JA):

Names of modern figures

For a modern figure—a person born after the beginning of the Meiji period (January 1, 1868 onward for our purposes)—always use the Western order of given name + family name in Latin script, and Japanese style family name+<space>+given name in Japanese script. For example:

Junichiro Koizumi (小泉 純一郎 Koizumi Jun'ichirō, born January 8, 1942) is a Japanese politician …

Spelling, including macron usage, of the name of a modern figure should adhere to the following, in order of preference:

1. Use the form personally or professionally used by the person, if available in the English/Latin alphabet;
2. Use the form found in an encyclopedia entry from a generally accepted English encyclopedia;
3. Use the form publicly used on behalf of the person in the English-speaking world;
4. Use the form publicly used on behalf of the person in any other popular Latin-alphabet-using language (French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, German, and Dutch, or variations); or
5. If none of the above is available, use the macronned form.

IMO, the name of this article should not have a macron. If I have misunderstood something important, an explanation will help me to avoid making a similar mistake in the future. --Horeki (talk) 16:00, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

We have four explicit #1-cites with hyperlinks to three stand-alone and complementary sources.

This thread begins with JapanFootball's diff here.

1. Three "official" sources are identified and each provides the "spelling, including macron usage, of the name of a modern figure".
2. In the very clear terms of the boxed list of preferences above, each "official" source "use[s] the form ... professionally used by" Ryuji Bando.

In sum, each source cited by JapanFootball is the 1st preference, the best choice. At this point, further delay is unreasonable in my opinion. --Horeki (talk) 12:34, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

No consensus to move. Discussion seems to have dissipated, with no consensus. Osiris (talk) 02:45, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not change it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No more changes should be made to this discussion.