Talk:The Brothers Karamazov

Comments

• The first sentence of the background section begins "Dostoevsky’s time in prison greatly influenced his book and his life."

Your reader doesn't know that Dostoevsky was in prison, and the Simple Wiki biography of him is short and inadequate. You can't presume theat your reader will have this knowledge. If it is important to the background, then it needs stating in a proper sentence, preferably dated, because that makes a difference to the reader's understanding as well.

 Done I changed it, with references . Classical Esther 10:39, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

The background needs to begin: In (year) the author Dostoevsky was imprisoned for (number of years) for (crime). This was to have a great influence on his later life and on this book.

 Done

• Then go back to the story and summarise it with the same clarity. eg: "The Brothers Karamazov" is the story of the lives four Russian Brothers who have very different characters.

 Done

• You tell us near the beginning that the novel was in series. So state the number of books, instead of leaving it to your reader to look to the end of the list to find out.

Hmm, actually I read it in several books that it came out in a series, but I don't actually know how many books it came out in. Could you see if you can find out? I'll just keep it as it is for now.

This all sounds "simplistic" but this is about writing simple English well.

Amandajm (talk) 08:00, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

I reviewed the suggestions, Amandajm! I hope this is better? Classical Esther 05:04, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I think that the brief description of D's life is helpful to understanding the time and situation that the book was written in.

I haven't read the "Brothers Karamazov" so I can only be of limited help.

• However, I notice that part of the intro now says its the story of four brother who represent three different... (I can't remember the exact words.) OK. Firstly, how many brothers are actually central to the story? There is a fourth brother born later, is there not? Is he a central or a secondary character. If he is a secondary character, then this is the story of "three brothers".

 Done Most people see The Brothers Karamazov as the story of four brothers. For instance, on the back of the Bantam Books version of The Brothers Karamazov, it says, "...it is the story of a ptricide and of the four sons who each had a motive for murder:Dmitry, the sensualist; Ivan, the intellectual; Alyosha, the mystic; and twisted, cunning Smerdyakov, the bastard child." Smerdyakov is really quite important, as he is the one who actually murders Fyodor Pavlovich Karamazov and shows the writer's belief in the hopelessness of Ivan's ideas.

• With regards to telling about the wives and sons, this needs to be written very clearly. As it is, it is a confusing list of names that a non-English reader may find difficult. State it very clearly. "With his first wife (name) he had one son called (name)." New sentence. "He remarried a woman called (name) and had two sons, (name and name)".

 Done I hope my new sentence is clearer.

• My general feeling is that the summary is too long.

Amandajm (talk) 11:29, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your fresh comments! You are very helpful indeed! Classical Esther 02:54, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

New comments

Comments.

• I've looked into this a little further. Smerdyakov is "rumoured to be" the the son Fyodor. He uses his mother's surname and is therefore not one of the "Brothers Karamazov" who are the title and subject of the book. He is essentially a secondary character, whose actions affect the primary characters. That explanation must read "It is the story of three brothers, otherwise the next part of the sentence is nonsense!

 Done Hmm, upon second thought, I decided you're right. Smerdyakov is almost certainly the son of Fyodor, and he does play quite an important part, but as he doesn't exactly represent a special part of mankind, I'll throw him out.

• So the corrected sentence is: The Brothers Karamazov is the story of the lives of three Russian brothers who are very different in body, mind, and spirit, and is often thought of to represent three parts of mankind itself.

 Done

• To look at the parts of the sentence we have ''The Brothers Karamazov is the story of the lives of three Russian brothers who are very different in body, mind, and spirit... This is now clear.

 Done

• The last part of the sentence states ...and is often thought of to represent three parts of mankind itself. What does this last statement mean exactly? It doesn't make sense because the grammar is not quite right. That word "is" is a singular form of the verb "to be", so when we look backward for its subject we find that the subject of the verb is the word "story".

Put the sentence together and it says ...the story ....is often thought of to represent three parts of mankind itself. I am certain that this is not what is intended. That word "is" should be the plural verb "are". Now it reads: The Brothers Karamazov is the story of the lives of three Russian brothers who are very different in body, mind, and spirit, and are often thought of to represent three parts of mankind itself. Now we leave out the "itself" as redundant, and instead, add a little word that directs us backward to what aspects of mankind are being referred to. The three that are mentioned earlier in the sentence. Improve the grammar with "as representing" not "to represent" The Brothers Karamazov is the story of the lives of three Russian brothers who are very different in body, mind, and spirit, and are often thought of as representing those three parts of mankind.  Done Beautifully said, Amandajm. Thank you very much.

This gets more at the gist of the book. Then when you describe the characters, it needs to be clear that one represents the physical, one the mental and one the spiritual.  Done --Amandajm (talk) 07:17, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks again, Amandajm! I reviewed all of your very logical, very helpful comments above. Classical Esther 08:57, 11 February 2010 (UTC)