Gsksari

Hallo. Regarding my previous request to you , whilst you were using another User ID, you have again added an objectionable statement and also a unreliable source (Wikely) which I have removed/changed and edited. Please, dont quote material out of context as in case of the Attock gazeteers which only mention that some Ghebas claim Mughal origins, and dont actually support such an argument or claim. Wikely is not at all an acceptable source by the way, as its neither a scholarly work nor properly researched and was subject to much criticism for its errate of this type even at the time of publication. I hope that you will please refrain from misquoting and/or citing unreliable sources, thanks. Keep all statements objective and within factual boundaries. RegardsHamneto (talk) 04:32, 7 December 2012 (UTC)Hamneto

Reality about Ghebas

Helo, hamneto ,its a truth that all the Gheba Families Now Claim Mughals. no One claim Rajputs since 1900. I have solid Punjab Land revenue rocords which i shal scao and add as a references. But one thimg more that the Jodhras of Pindigheb now Consider them as Ghebas. Like the Nawab of Pindigheb Malik Oulia khan Jodhras desendents using the title of Gheba.

Dear Gsksari, hallo! it doesnt matter what someone thinks or calls ones self, facts are historical facts and are supported by ancient documentary reliable evidence. Revenue records are of limited utility, as various castes and tribes have given different ancestry on them even in different districts for all sorts of shady transactions. I think this trend began later, as you say around 1910-1920, when some of the Ghebas etc began to engage in politics in Punjab and wished to prove 'foreign' (eg Turk,,Arab, Afghan etc) origins, rather than indigenous ones which are actually correct. Please also see various other notes Ive cited on several other plaes too, w r to tribal and clan origins in Northern Punjab and NWFP (Now KPK). I think as far as origins of the Ghebas are concerned what material we have already given is enouggh. If you wish to write more about other aspects such as sociology and cultural aspects etc please do so, with appropriate refs, but I would request you kindly to please not indulge in a wasteful edit war here, try to maintain objectivity, equilibrium and good faith, and not be carried away by personal biases and clannish prejudices, thanks v much. I look forward to positive contribution from you. Regs, Hamneto (talk) 10:30, 7 December 2012 (UTC)Hamneto

By the way, there was no 'Nawab' Aulia Khan of Pindi Gheb, only Malik Aulia Khan. I dont believe any such personal title was ever bestowed upon him by the British RajHamneto (talk) 10:30, 7 December 2012 (UTC)Hamneto

Include it as

Ok thanks hamneto, its a fact that Ghebas origins consider them as Rajputs. But once again i shal try to say that topic about Ghebas, should be as, that the Gheba are a tribe found in Fatehjang Tehsil Attock District, claim to be Mughal, and All the Ghebas Are Returned as Mughals.And all the Gheba are in Fatehjang ,and using the title of Sardar. The Sardar of Kot Is the Most important of All the Ghebas. next are the Malal families, and Dhari Rai Ditta , Shah rai saadullah,Dhurnaal,and Lund familes., same is the case with the kassars of Chakwal who claim Mughals and in land records Write Them as Mughal Kassars(Gsksari (talk) 11:18, 7 December 2012 (UTC))

Ok, thats fine, I see no problem with that and I think that this is already stated in the article, as above. The thing is, this is NOT Wikipedia, this is Simple English Wikipedia and we dont want to add long and confusing notes for young people, or English learners (prime readers here) do you please understand this? Agar ap ko Angrezi mein dikkat pesh arahi hai, tau Urdu mein batlae deta hun-- yahan Simple English Wikipedia mein tareekh aur origins ke baaray mein lamba note nahi bana saktay aur confusing material jaise ke 'land revenue records' 'returns' etc, add karna trheek nahi ho ga. Yeh baatain origins me kafi agai hain, abhi aap agay kuch mazeed information dena chahtay hain (eg sociology and culture etc of tribe) tau zarur deejiye. Magar ap se iltijah hai ke meherbani se history/origins ko mazeed na barhain. Umeed hai aap taawvun karain ge, thanks Hamneto (talk) 11:48, 7 December 2012 (UTC)Hamneto

Agar aap please Main Page pe jane aur Simple Englis Wikipedia ke Maqasid (ojectives/goals) ke baray mein please parhain tau aap ko idea ho jae ga ke 'requirement' kiya hai. Tareekh jitni likhi hai woh kaafo hai aur simple bhi, thanks Hamneto (talk) 11:50, 7 December 2012 (UTC)Hamneto

If you look at most of the stubs on races/tribes, on this Simple Wikipedia, you will note that all these are given brief notice only--so the Gheba article is already rather long and confusing. We also aim to keep the language simple and direct (pl see 'Writing Simple English' hints in intro) and thats the whole purpose of this Wikipedia. Regs, Hamneto (talk) 12:02, 7 December 2012 (UTC)Hamneto

Here are some samples to check out: Afridi, Arain, Dhund Abbasi, Jadoon, Khattak, Tanoli, Tiwana, Warraich etc. Hope they are helpful for you to understand what Im trying to say/tell you my friend. Regs, Hamneto (talk) 12:04, 7 December 2012 (UTC)Hamneto

Thats Fine

Ok thats fine, its amazing that you Know Urdu as well. Can you tell me about Urself?.(Gsksari (talk) 12:24, 7 December 2012 (UTC))

Fisrt please allow me to welcome you formally! Wikipedia:WELCOME

Some cookies for you

Here are some useful pages:

• Introduction
• Five pillars of Wikipedia
• How to edit a page
• How to write a good article here
• Help pages

Regs, Hamneto (talk) 12:30, 7 December 2012 (UTC)Hamneto

As introduction, I am of Kashmiri origins, settled for many years in UK, and taught as a university professor for about 22-23 years. My specialty is South Asian history esp Punjab and NWFP (KPK) What about you? Are you from the Gheba tribe?

A lot of Thanks .(Gsksari (talk) 12:33, 7 December 2012 (UTC))

Welcome! Please feel free to contact me if I can help, I welcome your help on the Gheba article, esp further sociological aspects with refs etc regs Hamneto (talk) 12:35, 7 December 2012 (UTC)Hamneto

See you

Well! Time for me to go now! See you around, good luck! Hamneto (talk) 12:36, 7 December 2012 (UTC)Hamneto

My Introduction

Yes,I originally belong to the Gheba tribe, from the Fateh jang area in Attock district of Rawalpindi division, Pakistan , although I have largely lived in Taxila and wah , since my father was in government service and served largely in these stations. I had my initial education from Govt High School and the Degree College Taxila and then took an Msc degree in History from the Punjab University . Between 2007- tilI now worked for several educational institutions in the Punjab and later I proceeded on a research Project where I was able to consult extensively at the Library,and eventually will take admission Mphil degree in South Asian Studies at the Quaid azam University of Islamabad. My chief areas of interest include ,South Asian studies in general, Pakistan studies especially the country's colonial and later socio-political history and literature and the history and culture of the Rawalpindi division and the Northern Punjab areas contiguous to it and I shall also write and publish research in academic journals on these topics. Actually Our Forfathers claim Mughals.And i also Confused when i read the History Books.And In land Records Mughal Gheba is written,and we have very close relations with the Rajput Jodhras and Rajput Alpials.,,so The Jodhras are prefer to Called by their Qum Rajputs and We Prefer to be Called by our Qum Mughals and some jodhras uses the title of Sardar and some are Maliks, but Ghebas identification is that they uses Title Sardar.(Gsksari (talk) 12:51, 7 December 2012 (UTC))

Thats very good to know, I am happy to know about your background my dear friend. Well, although now I think both Wah and Taxila are in Rawalpindi district, they were also part of Attock some time ago. Indeed, the 'Wah family' of Khatars is also famous in Indo-Pakistani history. I think that there is a great deal of mixed up origins in Attock area (because it was borderline with Afghanistan) and many tribes possibly do have intermarriages and blood alliances with different races eg Rajputs, Turks/Mughals, Afghans, Arabs --for example Jodhra-Alpial-Gheba-Khattar-Awan all these are notable and noble tribes and they all have connections, indeed many similar origin theories nd claims. Its too difficult today to make clear distinctions, but we can safely say that there has been intermingling of these races and they might have possibly Turk or Afghan or Arab blood transplanted on ancient Scythian/Hun/Rajput roots. I have seen some old very old MSS and folios in the British Library dating from Delhi Sultanate times, that name some 'Gheba' chiefs as 'Rai' and 'Raja' and some were still Hindu then, whilst most were Muslims. One 'Rai Alyas Gheba' , descendant of 'Raja Dayanand' became Muslim and married a Turkish noble lady from Sultan Alatmash 's family, 'Nur Fatimeh Khavtun'. Ive also made some changes for you, in the Gheba article, as all dont claim Barlas origins (eg Jodhras and few other Ghebas ) I think 'Many' is correct and objective. Regards, Hamneto (talk) 05:03, 8 December 2012 (UTC)Hamneto

A Little consideration to be needed here.

Hello, my dear friend,thanks for Ur Reply. I have request if fulfill it, i am so much pleased if you Write or add something as i discussed with you about Ghebas. On Main Wikipedia page of Gheba. .One thing is clear that the Ghebas are Weather Mughal or Rajputs it doesnt mattes. Its a fact that the Sardar's of Fatehjang Who claim Mughals are Ghebas. And They are the Landlords and Landowners in Fatehjang area. And Their main villages are Kot Fateh khan, Malal, Dhurnal, Dhari Rai Ditta ,shah Rai Saadullah, , Majia, Jeendar, Lund, Daidur,Gulyaal..etc and Its a true Fact that No Gheba member used The Title of Malik .And No one Claim Rajputs . There is no village of Such type in which Ghebas are living and Claim Rajputs. Except The Maliks of Pindigheb who Are Actuallay Jodhras but due to Marrying in Ghebas of kot They usesd it. And The Website Of Kot Fateh khan has made by them. And in Their website There is no Biography of Sardar Mumtaz Hussain khan son in law of Sardar sir Muhmmad Nawaz khan. Who belong to Gheba tribe And Claim Mughals. Malik att Father belong to Rajput Jodhras and Mother Belong to Ghebas of Kot. Now the jagir is in the Possession of malik atta. So how he say that he was from jodhras?. Malik oulia Of pindigheb Married with the Daughter of khan Bahdur Sardar Fateh khan Gheba of Kot and Due to this relation The descendants of Malik Oulia Called them as Gheba.But They are Rajput Jodhras, and one thing more which i shall like to add that the Writers writes abnut only the Major or main Person of Ghebas. And their biographies and genology of such persons.As in kot Fateh khan Not only The Sardar sir muhammad nawaz khan ,other sardar Mughals Ghebas who have not actively participated in the Politics and Government or sultante matters. In punjabi a word uesd "kharpainch" mean The Resourceable, active ,and socio political persons. And consider as a leader of The tribe or his family.So kindly write in the main wikipedia page of Article Gheba .(Gsksari (talk) 06:41, 8 December 2012 (UTC))

Dear User:Gsksari hello, and thanks for joining up here regularly. Hmm--I see your point thats right, but I think youre right that should be added somewhere in the Main English Wikipedia article not on Simple English Wikipedia--there, you can write in detail about such things, and also give more information and historical background. You are very correct about late Sardar Sir Muhammad Nawaz Khan, Gheba, of Kot; and now Jodhras are in possession of Kot Fateh Khan, via Malik Atta Mohammad Khan. If I might suggest this to you, please why dont you take this matter to the main Wikipedia Admin? If you post a notice there on Admin Notice Board and explain in simple terms about what addition you want the admins will add this to the article. Thus you should go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page and open Help link and then Admin Notice link. If you wish I would be glad to help, by also adding my voice to youyrs. Regs, Hamneto (talk) 11:44, 8 December 2012 (UTC)Hamneto

Hallo again. I see that there is very little material in the Gheba article on the main Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gheba and I would definitely advise you to please add this useful information, in full detail, there, thanks.Hamneto (talk) 11:52, 8 December 2012 (UTC)Hamneto

G

Thanks for your kind considration about my topic. Actually i shal do as you said but i think that as You are An experienced person and Having the right to add in all wikipedia articles ,and you can do it better as compared to me...Because several times i hav written ,but removed or deleted by some wikipedia editor. Anyhow i shal also write these things there on wikipedia . (Gsksari (talk) 12:42, 8 December 2012 (UTC))

My dear friend, you are welcome, if I can help I shall be happy to do so. I have also discussed the problem with Osiris, who is very senior and an admin here and who gives very good advice. He has suggested that (a) probably there are 2 reasons for your material being removed firstly, basic English writing skills problems and secondly lack of adequate and reliable sources and (b) a good thing for you would be to first of all add/make a 'Gheba' article in Punjabi Wikipedia or Urdu Wikipedia and then get someone to translate from there, into English. I also think this is a good and useful idea and worth considering-- iss ke baaray mein zara sochye ga, agar ap pehle Punjabi ya Urru mein article bana lein aur phir English mein translate kar ke koi add ker lei. Regs, Hamneto (talk) 04:06, 9 December 2012 (UTC)Hamneto

The Punjabi Wiki link is Punjabi Wikipedia ; and if you still wish to consult a senior editor on regular /main English Wikipedia then please contact Mar4d (talk ▪ changes) might be able to help out. Good luckHamneto (talk) 04:11, 9 December 2012 (UTC)Hamneto

Ok,Thats fine. You said well .I shall try to do so .(Gsksari (talk) 04:36, 9 December 2012 (UTC))

Dear u told me that you have studied very old MSS from Dehli sultantae period .And there is something about Ghebas Progentior .So kindly send me in PDF all the Reference books. And any other record that You have seen relating to Ghebas in Mughals and Sikh perind. I shal be Very thankful to you if u do so for me.(Gsksari (talk) 05:02, 9 December 2012 (UTC))

Hallo! Yes, certainly, I shall send you the info that I have in note form, the Old MSS is a folio type document with the 'rare MSS' section of the British Library London, we cant photo it or photocopy or in any way expose it to any lights etc. But scholars can study the document in the BL Reading Rooms. I can send you its reference number/accession and basic text. If you will send me an email that will be helpful, shall forward you all the information in a week or ten days thanks Hamneto (talk) 10:53, 9 December 2012 (UTC)Hamneto

Ok, thanks for ur Reply..My email address is: janoongsk@gmail.Com, (Gsksari (talk) 11:03, 9 December 2012 (UTC))

Ok thanks, shall forward asap 04:05, 10 December 2012 (UTC)Hamneto

Email

Hi Gsksari.

I sent a reply to your email on 9/12/2012. If you've sent another one since then, please resend it and I'll make sure my filter is working. If you've only sent the one, my reply might be in your "junk" folder -- if not, please tell me and I'll re-send my reply right away.

Regards, Osiris (talk) 07:25, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Hamneto

Hi dr sir, u havnt email mail me yet.(Gsksari (talk) 12:28, 20 December 2012 (UTC))

My dear friend salam to you! I shall definitely send the information via email soon, am at present on holiday with my daughter and her family (Christmas and New Year holiday season) and shall email as soon as I get back home. Warm regards, Hamneto (talk) 03:26, 21 December 2012 (UTC)Hamneto

Helo hamneto

Helo sir how r u? You have promise to send me MSS .But you didnot fulfil your promise ,why sir? Reply sir.(Gsksari (talk) 15:49, 22 January 2013 (UTC))

Hallo, I have already responded to your query above on the Gheba tribe talk page. Am sending you the material that I have been able to dig up for you (sadly not too much, as I did my research long time ago and dont have all my notes still) and am going to email just now. Please let me know when you get it, thanks. Regards, Hamneto (talk) 05:23, 26 January 2013 (UTC)Hamneto

Hello, just to let you know that I have emailed you all the material points (from notes) that I had, about Ghebas from old books/sources. If you would like to ask anything please contact me on my email (confidential please, for you only).Hamneto (talk) 04:00, 27 January 2013 (UTC)Hamneto

Thanks sir . I have received ur email. And i m also sending u some information about Ghebas scan books pages. Wen u read reply me. (Gsksari (talk) 14:17, 1 February 2013 (UTC))

Thanks, havent yet got the scans attachments, could you maybe please resend? Thanks, Hamneto (talk) 12:29, 2 February 2013 (UTC)Hamneto