Talk:George Floyd protests

"The text must be different"

@ImprovedWikiImprovment: I know Wikiprojects require the text of the article to be different from that of the source for copyright reasons, but can you show me the policy/guideline/etc. that says the texts of different articles must be different from each other? I should read it. Darkfrog24 (talk) 14:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

@Darkfrog24: there are no policies and guidelines, but two articles shouldn't have identical sections; it negates the point and is not good practice. They should be at least reworded. This can be done by applying the text to the context of either article. So discussion of the protests on Death of George Floyd should be minimal. Discuss the information in context to the article with a reword. IWI (chat) 16:19, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

@ImprovedWikiImprovment: Is there a Simple English Wikipedia discussion that established consensus on this? I should read it. Darkfrog24 (talk) 18:01, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

@Darkfrog24: not sure. It's more of a matter of good practice in writing. There is no point having the exact same text on two pages; it negates the point of having two pages if much of the text is the same. If you disagree with me, you can ask for other people to take part in this discussion on WP:ST. IWI (chat) 18:06, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

That seems premature, but thanks for the info. I will start a discussion at WP:ST if it starts to look necessary. I wanted to know if the belief that it isn't best practice was coming from you as an individual, from a published source, or from the community. It looks like it's coming from you. Thank you for answering my questions.

I'm not going to edit war over this. I don't own the text that I add to articles, and I fully recognize that you or anyone may remove or change it if you sincerely think that's best. I don't need to ask anyone where to find "If you don't want your writing to be edited, erased, or copied by others, don't send it here." Darkfrog24 (talk) 18:14, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

@Darkfrog24: Please, you are welcome to add it back if you change it up a bit and add some context. That's all the dispute is; you used the exact same text. IWI (chat) 19:58, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't see a problem with it being identical text. Sometimes articles will explain the same concept, and sometimes they will do that in the same way. The question is whether this should or shouldn't be one of those times. You feel it shouldn't be, and that's fine with me.

But I did figure out what was surprising to me about what you said.

Talking academically about the general principle of whether it's good practice for two articles in the same encyclopedia to have identical text here and there, however, I offer that it is. I updated the Euryarchaota subcategory on the English Wikipedia and Spanish Wikipedia. This is a hundred-odd articles about microorganisms that are related to each other, and I had a collection of sentences and paragraphs that I could reuse verbatim or nearly verbatim in many of them. Why reinvent a dozen new ways to describe a pseudomurein cell wall (and risk new errors when translating them) when the organisms have essentially the same one? Identical sentences or paragraphs might even be better if, by reinforcing how the subjects are identical in some ways, they also highlight how they are different in others, like how some microorganisms can have the same cellular shape but feed on different substrates. That's why I don't reject the idea of identical passages. Darkfrog24 (talk) 03:10, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

@Darkfrog24: That's a different matter entirely; this is not a mass scale concept, it is an event. I don't reject it either when talking about general concepts like that. IWI (chat) 14:29, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Okay, we're closer to on the same page then. It sounded like you meant you thought no one should ever use identical text. Darkfrog24 (talk) 14:49, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

@Darkfrog24: no no, of course not. But, for example, the page about the original WTC's section about 9/11 should not just be pasted text from the 9/11 article. IWI (chat) 15:03, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

"Then", and new text

The "then" (in response to this) was there in case it was never updated when all this blows over, but does give that suggestion you're right. IWI (chat) 19:21, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

@Darkfrog24: if we work together we can make these articles pretty good and exhaustive in simple English. IWI (chat) 19:24, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

I think so, yes. For anyone else coming in, I am worried that "Tim Walz, then the Governor" with a "then" might make people think he's not the governor now, that he resigned because of the riots. (I did a brief Google search to see if he had in fact resigned before changing "then" to "the.") People are calling for Trump to resign, after all.

How do you feel about "Minnesota Governor Tim Walz wanted" with the timed word being the verb "wanted"? We do that in historical writing pretty often, as in "U.S. President William Howard Taft was the largest..." Darkfrog24 (talk) 19:33, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

That seems a lot better to me yes. Also I copied and translated the "deaths" section from the enwiki. IWI (chat) 19:37, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Yes, a good addition, I think. I wish there were more information for who killed each of these people, but perhaps it will become available in the next few weeks. Darkfrog24 (talk) 20:04, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

This is a fast-moving story. The police probably don't even know who killed whom at the moment. IWI (chat) 20:55, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Who the looters are

I keep hearing that most of the peaceful protesters are serious and most of the people doing the looting are opportunists, white supremacists, or out-of-towners. I wouldn't be surprised if this was true in some cities and not in others. I want to gather sources and information here before attempting to add anything about it either way to the article.

• CBS Mayor Carter of St. Paul Minneapolis at first said the troublemakers were out of towners but then corrected himself. Mayor Frey and Governor Walz did similarly.
• NBC Philadelphia A DA in Philadelphia said most of the looters were not protesters. Protesters were arrested too but mostly for things like refusing to go away and for disrupting traffic.
• Kiro A police chief in Washington says the looters are organized criminals.

Darkfrog24 (talk) 18:48, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Good idea; at this early stage, I'd avoid speculating, or even citing speculation until events become more clear. IWI (chat) 18:53, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

• NBC At least one white supremacist group impersonated antifa on Twitter. Darkfrog24 (talk) 19:28, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

This could be included for sure. Could do with a new section for it. IWI (chat) 19:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

I don't mind if anyone who wants to runs with it but for now I'm just collecting sources. Some of these things still need to shake out all the way. Darkfrog24 (talk) 20:24, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

• Minnesota Courthouse Official links. Darkfrog24 (talk) 21:07, 3 June 2020 (UTC) EDIT: Okay, this one looked promising but it turned out to be more of the same. A couple of the looters were connected to white supremacist groups and crime but no clear majority per this source. Darkfrog24 (talk) 00:39, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

There seems to be a lack of agreement with sources, we have to wait and see how sources report. IWI (chat) 00:41, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Absolutely. Darkfrog24 (talk) 03:03, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

This source is from Columbia Journalism Review and it's an excellent overview of the events so far. It could make a good go-to source for when you know you read something somewhere but don't have it to hand. It's probably in here. Darkfrog24 (talk) 02:32, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

St. John's Church

@Darkfrog24: This needs some simplifying for sure, although is good. IWI (chat) 21:52, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Simple English is not my first language. I welcome all improvements. Darkfrog24 (talk) 22:48, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

English or simple English? Because nobody's first language is actually Simple English. IWI (chat) 22:50, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Simple English. I gave it a go. Feel free to have at it yourself. Darkfrog24 (talk) 22:53, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

What people thought

I was going to add a paragraph about what Britons thought of the protests, but this article I found is by iNews, which is not nearly as reputable as Pew Research. In fact, I don't think I've heard of iNews before. Is it a reliable source? Darkfrog24 (talk) 15:27, 15 June 2020 (UTC)