Talk:Giselle
| This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Giselle article. | |||
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 | A fact from Giselle appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column on 28 August 2012. |  |
| A fact from Giselle appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column on 3 October 2012. | |
prose
changeSomething awkward is happening in the intro. The Willis: well, on stage they are assuredly live girls, but they represent the spirits of dead girls. On has to be careful in simplifying not to get too clunky (as here, "dead girls") or too mmm... journalistic, as with "overnight superstar", towards the end. In any event, one can't become an overnight superstar if one has only been seen by a couple of thousand people. The whole concept depends on modern instantaneous communication, and on electronic media. There is a strange dissonance caused by the antiquated story-line of the ballet bumping into these uneasy phrases. Macdonald-ross (talk) 07:45, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
PVGA review
changeAs always, a rather nit-picky review for VGAs:
- lead
- Carlotta Grisi danced the first Giselle - That sounds rather odd. It somehow suggest that there was one Giselle followed by another and so on, like a chronology of Giselles, which surely isn't meant that way.
Done "Carlotta Grisi danced the role of Giselle."
- The story is set in long ago Germany - Long ago is bad. What is long ago, for a ten-year-old two years ago are a long time, for the eighty-year-old granny, two years is like nothing. In world history are 1000 years like nothing, which might be a lot for here.
Done "The story is set in Germany of the Renaissance."
- Giselle discovers he is about to marry a princess - sounds confusing to me. Giselle appears to be male in this sentence and Albrecht is female?
Done "Giselle discovers Albrecht is about to marry the princess Bathilde."
- The ballet was first performed in Paris on Monday 28 June 1841 at the Opéra - the Opéra? Even thought it is linked, it somehow suggest that Paris only has one opera at this time. You should include the name in the sentence.
Done "The ballet was first performed in Paris on Monday 28 June 1841 at the Théâtre de l'Académie Royale de Musique."
- quickly isn't the best word in an encyclopaedia. What actually is quick?
Done "It was a great success, and promptly staged by other ballet companies in Europe, Russia, and the United States."
- greatest - the same problem as above. Furthermore, who decides which ballerinas are great in such cases?
Done "Grisi was declared another Taglioni, the period's greatly acclaimed ballerina."
- background
- The very first sentence is too long.
Done "The French Revolution (1789–1799) produced a French middle class which rejected aristocratic tastes and values."
- annihilated is not simple.
Done "broken"
- perished is not simple.
Done "died"
- Also, this second sentence is also too long and the whole first paragraph needs references.
Done "These tastes and values had influenced French art and literature since the reign of Louis XIV."
- The next sentence is also too long.
Done Made into two sentences. "The power of the aristocracy had been broken with the Revolution. Thousands of aristocrats had died on the guillotine, in massacres, in prisons, or had fled France for safety in other lands."
- Yet again the Opéra.
Done "In November 1831, Meyerbeer's opera Robert le diable received its first performance."
- This ballet is about a beautiful fairy who lures James, a young Scotsman, away from his bride on their wedding day. - The subordinate clause in the middle makes the sentence a bit unsimple.
Done "This ballet is about a beautiful sylph (fairy) and James, a young Scotsman. The two dally in a woodland glade before the sylph accidentally dies at the hands of her human lover."
- She was the first to dance for any length of time en pointe in the interests of art and the first to wear the white, calf-length ballet skirt considered indispensible to the romantic ballet. - That sentence somehow sounds rather complex.
Done "She was the first to dance en pointe for the sake of art rather than spectacle. She was also the first to wear the white, bell-shaped, calf-length ballet skirt considered a distinguishing feature of the romantic ballet."
- he was entranced - is that covered by the reference at the end of the paragraph? If not, it will need a reference.
Done deleted. Reference provided
- Libretto
This section has been rewritten, eliminating some of the issues below. Oregonian2012 (talk) 20:33, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
- Libretto is an Italian word meaning "little book". - Some reference to a dictionary or something would be nice.
- waiting for her cloak to be found - Can we get something in active voice rather than passive?
- Wilis (pronounced Willees) - It might be handy to get the IPA for the word or even better an audio file instead of this.
- He wrote the story of Giselle as it is known today in three days. - Just a hint, that might be a nice fact for DYK.
- music
- Adolphe Adam was a popular writer of ballet and opera music in early 19th-century France. - That needs a reference.
Done
- romance by a Mlle - I assume the last word is a typo? Otherwise, please explain it.
Done Mlle (Mademoiselle) is the French equivalent of the English "Miss"
- Carl Maria von Weber - I think he hasn't been mentioned before, so could use a link.
Done
- The last paragraph should better be made a quote with the
{{quote}}template, imo.
Done
That's only the first part, review to be continued soon. It is a nice article, however, it is not yet ready for VGA status. -Barras talk 19:57, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
Let's go on.
- music
- Jean Coralli and Jules Perrot designed the dances for Giselle. Perrot and Grisi were lovers, and he designed all of her dances and all of her pantomime. in the first sentence you name two people, in the second you speak of him.
Done This has been clarified
- Especially at the start of the section, you use several times he or she, which is quite confusing, because it is rather hard to get an idea of which person you speak right now.
Done Clarified
- trembled doesn't appear to be really simple.
Done Rewritten
- abandoned should probably be linked to wiktionary.
Done Linked
- Giselle's Act 1 pantomime scene in which she tells Albrecht of her strange dream about a noble woman taking him away from her is cut, and the peasant pas de deux in Act 1 is usually cut back a bit. - is a bit too long.
Done Cut back a bit and made into two sentences
- The machines used to make Giselle fly and to make her disappear are no longer used, though a trapdoor is sometimes employed to make her rise from her grave and then to make her sink into it at the end of Act 2. - is also too long.
Done Shortened
- dazed and grieving - both should be linked to wiktionary.
Done
- Ethnic music, dance, and costume
- Things like skirts, costume, country names and so on should be linked.
Done Links provided
- Costumes and sets
- ...at the Opéra - it would probably make sense to write "at the Opéra in Paris".
Done "at the Opéra in Paris".
- wardrobe should be linked.
Done Linked to Wiktionary
- The ballet was revived in 1924 - It would make sense to put in a "again" somewhere, as this happened the second time already.
Done Rewritten
- The redlink needs to be filled.
Done Article created
- "some mysterious corner of Germany ... on the other side of the Rhine" - I think that a sentence afterwards would be good that explains which side of the Rhine is meant. The eastern or western.
Done Explained. It's the eastern side
- thatched cottage is not simple.
Done Simplified -- "cottage with a roof of straw"
- disintegrating is not simple.
Done Simplified -- "falling apart"
- With pool do you actually mean a swimming pool? Could be linked then.
Done Just a simple "pool of water" like a pond -- not a swimming pool
- intertwined branches overhead is fairly complex.
Done Simplified
- marble should be linked.
Done Linked
- grape, leaves should also be linked.
Done Linked
- moon should be linked.
Done Linked
- first perfomance
- Link important words like tumour, conductor, etc.
Done Links provided for many words
- postponed is not a simple word.
Done Linked to Wiktionary
- tomb needs a link.
Done Link provided
Mostly minor stuff, I think. -Barras talk 12:50, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
Just a quick note: there are several dablinks that need fixing... Osiris (talk) 11:12, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
DoneOregonian2012 (talk) 08:52, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
- story of the ballet
- The lead section should mention that the ballet has only two acts.
- vengeance should be linked.
You could probably use sub-headers for the acts and maybe start the main section with some little lead that the ballet consists of two acts, maybe how long they are and whatever else could fit in. I think that would look a bit better.
- contemporary reviews and comments
- commercial should be linked.
- The word "praised" sounds a bit POV-ish.
- narrative is not simple.
- accompanying is not simple.
- In the first section you always use "wrote", in the second, when you speak of the dance historian, you say "writes" - Please keep consistent with tenses.
- The long quote should be formatted as in the music section.
- 6500 francs - link to French franc?
- make her the top earner among the dancers at the Opéra - Surely ...at this time, otherwise I'd be surprised.
- sculptor should be linked.
- early productions
- Really good, but one question: What about Germany? The ballet plays in Germany, so it might be a good idea to mention its success/fail in Germany?
- modern productions
The section only speaks of the time of 1911. Modern means to me more something like after 1945. Something about today would also be nice.
Ref 3, Balanchine 1975, p. 459, doesn't link to the book below.
That's now all for the first review. Haven't checked what you've already fixed. -Barras talk 16:25, 29 August 2012 (UTC)