Talk:Ganges

Expansion of the page

I expanded this page mostly taking help from the English Wikipedia and some from my own. Please check whether the sentences I've written are simple or not.--Soumit ban (talk) 14:55, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Move from Ganga

This article was originally at Ganga and was moved to Ganges by a robot tp fix a double redirect [1]. I would like it moved back. Not tata (talk) 16:07, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Common name of the river

Since 1996 the name of the river is agreed as "Ganga/Ganges" [2] and the river officially demarcated into 2 sections, where "Ganga" refers to the section in India in English and all other Indian languages, "Ganges" is now the English language name only for the Bangladesh section.

The present usage is misleading students and beginners in both the major riparian states, and is also unscholarly.

eg. see: The Ganges River, more popularly known by its Hindu name, the Ganga .. CE 397 Transboundary Water Resources The Ganges - Brahmaputra - Barak Basin

also Trans-boundary River Basins in South Asia:Options for Conflict Resolution (2011) Not tata (talk) 15:24, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Usage in the English language

A heuristic estimation of online English language usage of "Ganga" versus "Ganges" associated with the term" river" within India yields a 10:1 ratio (243,000 : 23,112) using Google. (+"ganga"-"ganges" +"river" site:.in).(-"ganga"+"ganges" +"river" site:.in). If I remove "river" it shoots to 67:1. Not tata (talk) 15:53, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

I disagree completely. In the first place, the river flows through four countries and is not the exclusive property of any one of them. Second, It is almost universally known as the Ganges amongst English-speaking people. This wiki is called "Simple English", and we would be foolish to make any change which might confuse our readership. Macdonald-ross (talk) 20:05, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

The "Ganges" now flows through exactly 1 country Bangladesh. The only other country which the river described in the present article flows through is India, so I count 2 countries - which have agreed over their respective nomenclatures.

Here is the primary source from Bangladesh, and here is an Indian secondary one, or I could do it the other way about if you prefer using Banglapedia.

India is now the largest English speaking country, so I'd appreciate some very clear evidence for your suggestions along with civility, no personal attacks and avoiding any article/encyclopedia owner ship issues. Thanks Not tata (talk) 21:42, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Now river name is Ganga also in United States. Read The Ganga – Eternally pure?, by Prof. Ellen Wohl, Colorado State University, United States.

Mostly the SAARC now all following Ganga, like Nepal, Bhutan, Bangladesh in multilatral conferences. Read Disputes Over the Ganga, Panos Institute Nepal proceedings Druidwar (talk) 04:55, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

CLOSE to respect this wiki's readers and after considering the high quality English sources cited, Ganges for the Ganges basin system (delta) in Bangladesh, and Ganga the article for the Indian river of that name. Not tata (talk) 14:49, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

The common name for the river in the English language is Ganges and as such most English language sources will use that name. While Ganga is the common name in South Asia, outside that area, Ganges is the most common name barring a few exceptions. Pmlineditor (t · c · l) 15:18, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

There is no evidence before us to establish that Ganges is the present "common name" for the river, either in the English language or outside Asia continent (which has significant English speaking populations more interested in an accurate "simple" version than, say, an Australian or Canadian English language speaker). Not tata (talk) 07:36, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Editors interested in this discussion should read the parallel discussion on English wikipedia [3]. As one of our key guidelines is "Follow English Wkipedia" we would need a good consensus to name a page differently from them after they have had an extensive discussion. The reason is obvious: they have more editors to contribute to the discussion. Whatever else, a guideline is a guidelne.

I think the proposer is quite wrong to suggest "Ganga" is a comon title outside India. It certainly is not, and I am quite sure the great majority of our readers are outside India. Probably more than half are in North America. To readers in North America, Europe and Australasia it would be quite bizarre to title the page "Ganga". The word is simply not known at all by most English speakers.

If we change titles just because it is used differently by its native country, what next? Will we be asked to retitle "Germany" as Deutschland? Incidentally, the page was Ganges to start with in 2007, and should stay that way in my opinion. Macdonald-ross (talk) 09:03, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

WP:FOLLOW also says Simple Wikipedia is different from English Wikipedia, .. no English Wikipedia policy is a policy on Simple English Wikipedia.. It is really bizarre for readers in Asia, especially young students, to be deliberately faced with inaccurate and false information.

At no stage have I said that the title should be Ganga simply because it is used "differently" by its native country. I have asked for the change because Ganges is now verifiably the long accepted and recognised name for the smaller (minor) section of the river within Bangladesh and used as such by scholarly and official sources internationally. By your logic we should still be calling Bangladesh and Pakistan as "India", (or Bangladesh as 'East Pakistan').

The most recent article reference (US) calls it 'Ganga' {Alley, Kelly D. (2002). On the Banks of the Ganga: When Wastewater Meets a Sacred River. University of Michigan press. ISBN 0-472-06808-3}

The 2007 page create said "New page: Ganges or Ganga is a river in North India". So it was clear even then that 'Ganga' referred to the part in India and Ganga ranked equally with Ganges. Not tata (talk) 10:17, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

You left out part of WP:FOLLOW. The complete sentence is "Because of this, no English Wikipedia policy is a policy on Simple English Wikipedia — they are never more than guidelines." We do still follow guidelines. --Auntof6 (talk) 11:41, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

I left it out because (not being policy) it is irrelevant per WMF's "Terms of Use"

• • • Terms of Use and Policies – You adhere to the below Terms of Use and to the applicable community policies when you visit our sites or participate in our communities. Not tata (talk) 12:34, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Google News (UK) (queried in UK) gives these news numbers for +"ganga" -"ganges" (31,600) versus +"ganges" -"ganga" (1,790) Not tata (talk) 13:07, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

CLOSE. Since it is now clear from the "Terms of Use" and also the evidence that "Ganga" is overwhelmingly the preferred name in common usage in the English language sources, as compared to "Ganges", for this river, the article will be moved after 24 hours to "Ganga". Not tata (talk) 18:10, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Outdated and incorrect map

[4]

is badly obsolete and seems 100 years out of date. The river systems have altered significantly. We ought not to mislead students. Such details are very important to students in India, Bangladesh and Nepal, as their marks and careers are on the line. Not tata (talk) 15:37, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Feel free to replace it with another image on Commons (or upload one yourself, but you may need the copyright holders permission) George Edward C – Talk – Contributions 16:19, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. There are already better versions available on Commons, for once the article name issue is resolved. Not tata (talk) 07:37, 17 November 2014 (UTC)