Talk:Bastide

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NB : la numérotation a été rajoutée pour faciliter la lecture.

Numbering added for easier reading

Alphonse à vous tous qui lisez ces lettres, salut. Sachez que, aux habitants de notre bastide de Monflanquin dans le diocèse d’Agen, nous accordons les libertés et coutumes ci-dessous énoncées :

Alphonse, I greet you who read this letter. Know that we have given the following liberties and customs to the inhabitants of our bastide Monflaquin, in the diocese of Agen

1/ Savoir que par nous ou nos successeurs, il ne sera pas prélevé dans la dite ville ni quête, ni taille, ni le droit de gîte et n’y lèverons aucune subside à moins que ce soit de plein gré des habitants.

Know that from us or our successors, you will collect in this town no Quête, nore Taille, nore droit de gîte and will not collect any subsidies whatsoever unless it's the inhabitants' complete will.

2/ De même, les habitants actuels de la dite ville et ceux qui y habiteront dans la suite, pourront vendre, donner, aliéner tous leurs biens meubles et immeubles à qui ils voudront. Toutefois ils ne pourront aliéner leurs immeubles au profit d’une église, d’un couvent ou d’un ordre militaire si ce n’est en réservant le droit des seigneurs de qui ils les tiennent en fiefs.

By the same token, the current inhabitants of said city, and those who are going to live there henceforth can sell, give away, or pass on all ther movable and immovable possessions to whoever they want. They can however not give their immovable goods to a church, convent or military order unless they take care of the right of the seigneurs from whom they hold fiefs.

3/ De même, relativement au fait que les habitants de la dite ville peuvent marier librement et où ils veulent leurs filles et promouvoir leurs fils dans l’ordre clérical.

Similarly, the citizens of said city can give their daughters freely in marriage and to whom they want, and promote their sons to the order of the church.

4/ De même, ni nous ni notre bayle n’arrêterons aucun habitant de la dite ville, ni ne ferons violence ni ne saisirons ses biens, pourvu toutefois qu’il veuille et promette rester en justice, à moins qu’il ne s’agisse de meurtre, d’assassinat, de blessures mortelles ou de tout autre crime pour lequel sa personne et ses biens doivent nous être livrés.

Similarly, neither we, nor our representative shall arrest any inhabitant of the city, nor shall hurt them, nor seize their goods, lest he promise and strive towards not to break any laws. Excepted from this are murder, blessing someone mortally, and or any other crime for which his person and his goods shall be delivered to us.

5/ De même, à la suite d’une requête ou sur une plainte d’autrui, notre sénéchal ou ses bayles, si ce n’est pour notre propre fait ou sur notre plainte, ne pourront jamais appeler ou citer aucun habitant de cette ville hors des limites de la juridiction de cette bastide pour des faits qui se seront passés dans la dite ville et ses dépendances ou dans l’étendue de ses possessions ou de sa juridiction.

Similarly, following a request or a complaint, our representatives shall never be able to call on any inhabitant of this city to testify outside the jurisdiction of the bastide for events that happened inside the city and its jurisdiction. An exception to this is that which we ourselves request.

6/ De même, si un habitant de cette ville meurt, sans avoir fait son testament, s’il ne laisse pas d’enfants et s’il ne présente pas d’autres héritiers qui doivent recueillir sa succession, notre bayle et les consuls de la ville confieront après inventaire, les biens du défunt à deux hommes probes de la ville qui les garderont fidèlement pendant un an et un jour. Si, dans ce délai, il se découvre un héritier pour recueillir sa succession, tous les biens susdits lui seront remis intégralement. Dans le cas contraire tous les biens meubles nous seront remis ainsi que les biens immeubles tenus de nous en fief, pour en disposer à notre gré ; quant aux autres immeubles relevant d’autres seigneurs, ils seront remis à ces derniers qui en disposeront à leur gré, après avoir toutefois payé les dettes du dit défunt d’après les usages et coutumes du diocèse d’Agen si la dette est clairement établie, et cela dans le courant de l’année.

If an inhabitant of this city dies without a testament, and without leaving behind children, and if no other people present themselves to collect the heritage, our representatives shall nominate two people who will guard the goods of the deceased, for a year and a day. If someone who can rightfully claim the heritage within that time, all the goods mentioned before shall be transmitted to him as a whole.As to the immovables concerning others seigneurs, they will be restiuted to them, after the debts of the deceased have been paid following the customs of the diocese of Agen, if the debt can be clearly established during the course of the year.

7/ De même, les testaments faits par les habitants de la dite ville en présence de témoins dignes de foi seront valables, bien qu’ils n’aient pas été faits selon toutes les règles prescrites par la loi, à la condition toutefois que les enfants ne soient pas frustrés de la part qui leur revient ; il sera fait appel, à cet effet, au curé de la localité ou à tout autre ecclésiastique, dans la mesure du possible.

Testaments established by the inhabitants of said city, in the presence of trustworthy witnesses shall be valid, even if they were not established following all the rules required by the law, on the condition that the children get the part which rightfully belongs to them. To warrant this, the local priest or other clergy shall be called, wherever possible.

8/ De même, l’habitant de cette ville , quelque soit le grief qui lui sera fait et reproché et dont il sera accusé, ne sera tenu, à moins qu’il le veuille, de se disculper ou de se défendre par un duel, ni être contraint de recourir à un combat singulier ; et s’il refuse de se battre, il ne sera pas tenu pour coupable, mais le plaignant, s’il le veut, pourra en appeler en justice et prouver l’accusation par témoins ou par toutes autres preuves selon les formes légales.

Whoever lives in this city shall not be forced to enter a duel or single-handed combat to prove his innocence, if something is brought against him. If he refuses to enter combat, he shall not be seen as guilty; the person who brings an accusation against him may do so in a court of law, using witnesses, or any other means fit for the purpose, following legal forms.

9/ De même, les habitants de la dite ville pourront tenir et recevoir à cens ou en don, de n’importe quelle personne voulant vendre, inféoder ou donner ses biens immeubles à l’exception toutefois des fiefs, francs aleux et militaires, qu’on ne pourra acheter ou recevoir sans le consentement de nous ou de nos successeurs.

Similarly, inhabitants of the city mentioned before may give or receive as rent or gift goods form any other person withich to sell, rent, or give his immovable goods. Excepted from this are fiefs, (francs aleux?) and terrains for military use, which cannot be bought or received without us, or our successors consenting to the trade.

10/ De même, pour chaque pièce de terre de quatre cannes ou aunes de large et douze de long, nous aurons six deniers de droit d’oublie seulement et ainsi en proportion, payables à la fête de Ste Foy. Nous aurons tout autant de droit d’adapte à toute mutation de propriétaire ; et si c’est une vente, nous recevrons de l’acheteur le droit de vente (c’est à dire un douzième du prix de vente) ; si ces sommes ne nous ont pas été versées en temps voulu, il nous sera payé cinq sols d’amende en sus du droit d’oublie.

For each plot of land which is 16 feet wide, and 48 feet wide, we shall get a fee of only 6 deniers, to be paid on the feast of Ste Foy. We shall also have this tax on any change of ownership, If the land is sold, we shall get 1/12 of the selling price of the seller as a tax. If these taxes are not paid within the delays wanted, we shall get 6 sols, in addition to the taxes due.

11/ De même, si dans cette ville, dans les limites de sa juridiction ou sur son territoire, des incendies ou autres méfaits étaient accomplis clandestinement, une amende pour ces faits sera établie par nous ou notre lieutenant, selon les bons statuts et les bons usages approuvés du diocèse d’Agen.

We or our representatives shall establish a fine for arson, or for other felonies committed inside this city, or the limits of its juridiction. These fines will be established following the customs of the diocese of Agen.

12/ De même, le sénéchal et le bayle de notre ville seront tenus à leur entrée en charge de jurer devant les prud’hommes de la dite ville que, dans l’exercice de leurs fonctions, ils se conduiront consciencieusement, feront droit à chacun selon leur pouvoir et observeront les coutumes et les statuts approuvés de la ville.

When our representatives of our city start their duties, they shall vow to do as good as they can, and to abide by the laws and customs of this city.

13/ De même, les consuls de la dite ville seront renouvelés chaque année, le jour de la fête de l’Assomption. Nous, ou notre bayle, devrons ce jour-là : élire et installer six consuls catholiques choisis parmi les habitants de la dite ville que nous jugerons et estimerons être les plus honnêtes et les pus utiles aux intérêts de la communauté et aux nôtres.

Ces consuls jureront, en présence de notre bayle et du peuple, de bien et fidèlement nous servir et de maintenir nos droits, de fidèlement encore gouverner le peuple et de fidèlement encore, autant qu’ils le pourront, exercer leur charge de consuls, et enfin de ne recevoir de personne aucune récompense en raison de leur fonction. La communauté, à son tour, jurera de donner aux consuls conseils et assistance et de leur obéir, notre droit et notre souveraineté étant toutefois sauvegardés en toutes choses. Les dits consuls auront le pouvoir de réparer les rues, les chemins, les fontaines et les ponts et de lever avec le conseil de vingt-quatre élus par les habitants de la ville sur les habitants de la ville, les frais et dépenses occasionnés par les susdites réparations ou par d’autres entreprises communs nécessaires et d’utilité générale.

Consuls of said city shall be replaced each year, on the day of "Assomption". We or our representative shall elect 6 catholic consuls on that day, chosen among the inhabitants of the city. We shall pick those that we see as the most honest, and those who are able to best suit the needs of the community and of ourselves.

These consuls shall vow in the presence of our representatives, and of the people, to serve us well, and to keep up our rights, to govern the people, and to exercise their duty as consuls as good as they can. These consuls shall receive no compensation for what they do from anyone because of what they do.

The community shall give a vow in turn to help these consuls and to follow them in all things. Our sovereignty shall not be touched these measures.

The consuls shall have the right to repair streets, alleys, fountains and bridges. Together with the consulate of 24 people, elected by the community they shall collect the money necessary from the citizens, to execute these works or others necessary works to the general utility of the people.

14/ Quiconque aura jeté des immondices sur la voie publique sera puni par notre bayle ou par les consuls dans la mesure qu’ils jugeront convenable.

All those who litter public streets and alleys with human excrements shall be punished by our representative or by the consuls in the way they see fit.

15/ Tout laïque qui aura dans la dite ville ou dans ses dépendances des propriétés ou des revenus devra, pour ce motif, ainsi que ses successeurs contribuer au même titre que les habitants de la ville aux dépenses, frais et tailles qui seront établis par les consuls pour l’utilité de la ville. S’il refuse, notre bayle, à la requête des consuls, lui fera saisir ses biens. Mais les clercs et les autres personnes privilégiées sont tenus à la même obligation pour toutes leurs possessions qui ne leur viennent pas évidemment d’un héritage. Pour ces biens héréditaires ils ne sont tenus à rien, si ce n’est de leur pure et bonne volonté.

Every layman having property or income in the city, or its dependencies shall contribute to the upkeep of the city in the same manner as the inhabitants of the cities. This also applies to his successors. Our representative can seize his goods on the request of the consuls, in case he refuses.

Clerics and other privileged people shall do the same for the goods which did not fall to them by heritage. They have no such obligation as to the goods they inherited. They can contribute for their pure heart and good will.

16/ De même, les choses comestibles qui sont apportées du dehors pour être vendues, pourvu qu’elles viennent de plus d’une demi lieu, ne seront pas vendues avant d’être apportées sur la place de la ville. Et si quelqu’un fait le contraire, les acheteurs et le vendeur paieront chacun deux sous et demi pour la justice, à mois qu’ils ne soient des étrangers ignorants de cette coutume.

Comestibles from outside the city which are brought into the city to be sold, can only be sold after they were brought onto the marketplace, if they came from farther away than half a league. People who do not abide by this rule shall be fined; the buyer and the seller shall each pay 2 sous for legal expenses. Foreigners who do not know this custom are extempt from the fee.

17/ De même, quiconque aura méchamment frappé ou maltraité un habitant avec le poing, la main ou le pied sans qu’il y ait du sang versé, s’il a été porté plainte, sera condamné à payer cinq sols pour la justice et à réparer l’injure d’une manière raisonnable.

Those who beat up or maltreat an inhabitant with their fist, their hands, or their feet, shall pay 5 sols for legal fees, if the matter was brought before the justice, and no blood was spilled. They are also required to put the injured back into a reasonable state.

Si toutefois, il y a eu effusion de sang, l’agresseur paiera vingt sols pour la justice s’il a été porté plainte. S’il a frappé avec un glaive, un bâton, une pierre, une tuile, sans qu’il y ait eu du sang versé, l’amende sera de vingt sols. Et si le sang a coulé et qu’il ait été porté plainte, le coupable paiera soixante sols d’amende et en plus accordera à la victime la réparation d’usage.

If, blood has flown, however, the aggressor has to pay 20 sols in legal fees, if the matter was brought before the court. If he used a glaive, a bat, a stone, a brick, the fee will be 20 sols if there was no blood. If there was blood, and the matter was brought before the court, the fee will be 60 sols. In addition, the vitim will receive the customary reparation.

18/ De même, si quelqu’un a commis un meurtre et s’il a été reconnu coupable de la mort de la victime au point d’être considéré comme homicide, il sera puni par jugement de notre cour et ses biens nous seront acquis, mais après avoir payé ses dettes.

If someone has committed murder, and has been judged as guilty for the death of the victim, to the point where this can be considered homicide (manslaughter?), he will be punished by a judgement of our court, and his goods will fall to us, after having paid his debts.

19/ De même, quiconque, méchamment aura adressé à autrui des reproches, des injures ou des paroles blessantes, si il a été porté plainte à notre bayle, il sera puni d’une amende de deux sols et demi pour la justice et accordera à la victime la réparation d’usage. Quiconque, devant notre bayle ou notre cour, dira méchamment les susdites paroles sera puni pour la justice de cinq sols d’amende et réparera le tort.

Whoever addresses bad words, reproaches, or speech that hurts the feelings of someone else will be fined two sols and a half, if the matter is brought before the court.. He also has to pay customary reparations to the victim.

Whoever does this before our representative or the court will pay 5 sols, and repair the wrongdoing.

20/ De même, quiconque aura enfreint notre ban ou celui de notre bayle, ou bien aura soustrait un gage, saisi chez lui à la suite d’un jugement, sera puni d’une amende de trente sols pour la justice.

Whoever infringes our ban, or that of our representative, or who hides a warranty, found at his place after a judgment, will be punished by 30 sols of legal fees.

21/ De même, quiconque aura volé un droit de leude sera puni d’une amende de dix sols.

Wohever steals a nobleman's right will be fined 10 sols

22/ De même, les adultères hommes et femmes, s’ils ont été surpris en flagrant délit et qu’il y ait eu plainte ou bien s’ils ont été convaincus du fait par des personnes dignes de foi ou bien s’ils en ont fait l’aveu en justice, paieront chacun cent sols pour la justice ou seront tenus à courir tout nus à travers la ville, à leur choix.

Adulterers, men and women, whether caught in the act and there was a complaint, or whether they they were identified by people in good standing, or whether they admitted to it in a court of justice, will pay 100 sols each in legal fees. Alternatively they will have the choice of running through the city stark naked.

23/ De même, quiconque, dans de mauvaises intentions, aura tiré contre autrui un couteau ou une épée émoulus sera condamné à payer dix sols pour la justice et à faire réparation envers l’offensé.

Whoever draws a knife or a sword against another person with ill intent, will pay 10 sokls in justis fees, and repair the aggressed as to custom.

24/ De même, quiconque aura de nuit ou de jour dérobé un objet valant deux sols ou un prix moindre devra courir à travers la ville avec l’objet suspendu au cou, en outre il paiera cinq sols d’amende pour la justice et restituera l’objet volé. Exception sera faite pour les vols de fruits pour lesquels il sera fait comme il est dit plus bas.

Whoever steals an object, by night or day, with a worth of 2 sols or less, shall run thrugh the city with the object arond his neck. In addition, he shall pay 5 sols in fines and restore the object to its owner. This does not apply to stealing fruit, which is handled below.

Si l’objet volé vaut plus de cinq sols, le voleur sera pour la première fois marqué et condamné à payer soixante sols pour la justice et s’il a déjà été marqué, il sera puni conformément à la loi par jugement de notre cour. Si un homme vient à être pendu pour cause de vol, et si la valeur de ses biens le permet, on nous donnera dix livres, ses dettes payées, pour frais de justice. Le reste sera remis aux héritiers.

If the stolen object is worth more than 5 sols, and it is the first offence, the person will be branded, and fined 60 sols. If he is already branded he will be judged by our court, according to the law. If an offender was hanged for stealing, and if the worth of his possessions allows it, we will receive 10 pounds for legal fees, after his debts have been paid. The rest will be given as a heritage.

25/ De même, quiconque pénètre de jour dans les jardins, vignes ou prairies d’autrui et y prend des fruits, du foin, de la paille, du bois, pour la valeur de douze deniers ou au-dessous, sans l’autorisation du propriétaire après que défense en aura été faite annuellement, sera condamné à deux sols et demi d’amende à payer aux consuls pour les besoins de la ville. Tout ce que les consuls retireront de ces amendes sera remis en commun au profit de la ville, pour les réparations des chemins, des ponts, des fontaines et autres travaux analogues. Et si la chose volée vaut plus de douze deniers, le coupable sera condamné pour droits de justice à nous payer dix sols d’amende. Quiconque pénètre de nuit et emporte des fruits, du foin, de la paille, sera condamné à nous payer trente sols et en même temps à réparer le dommage causé au propriétaire.

Whoever penetrates to the gardens, vineyards, or meadows of someone else, and who takes fruit, hay, grass or wood there during the day, without the authorisation of the owner, of a value of 12 deniers or less, will be fined 2 sols and a half, to be paid ot the consuls of the city. This money will be used for the needs of the city, for the repair of streets, fountains, bridges and similar works.

If the goods were worth more, the fine will be 10 sols, to be paid to us.

Whoever penetrates at night and takes fruit, hay, or straw will be fined to pay us 30 sols, and to repair the damages to thew owner.

26/ Si un boeuf, une vache ou une bête de somme entre dans les jardins, vignes, prairies, appartenant à autrui, le propriétaire de la bête paiera six deniers aux consuls de la ville ; pour un porc ou une truie, tris deniers ; pour deux brebis ou chèvres ou boucs le propriétaire des bêtes paiera un denier aux consuls. Tout cela sans préjudice des dommages-intérêts à payer au maître des jardins, vignes, prairies. Le produit des amendes sera employé par les consuls à l’usage qui est indiqué ci-dessus.

If a piece of cattle, a cow or an ox enters the gardens, vineyards, or meadows that belong to someone else, the owner has to pay 6 deniers to the consuls; for a swine, three deniers, for two goats one denier. This odes not ibclude reparation payments and interest to the master of the gardens, vineyards or meadows.

27/ De même, quiconque aurait fait usage de faux poids, d’une aune fausse, si le délit est réellement établi, devra payer soixante sols d’amende.

Those using false weights or measures shall pay 60 sols, if the infraction can be proved.

28/ De même, pour une plainte au sujet d’une dette, d’une convention ou de quelque autre contrat, si tout de suite, c’est à dire le premier jour, devant notre bayle, le débiteur reconnaît sans procès et sans ajournement le bien fondé de la plainte, il ne nous sera rien payé. Mais dans les neuf jours notre bayle devra faire rembourser au créancier tout ce qu’on aura avoué lui être dû, autrement le débiteur sera condamné à payer pour droit de justice deux sols et demi d’amende.

For a complaint about debt, a convention or anoy other type of contract, and if reported immediately, meaning on the first day, to our representative, if the debtor admits this without a lawsuit, nothing will be paid to us.

But in the nine days following, our representative will have to make the creditor pay back everything he is claimed to owe , otherwise the debtor will have to pay two and a half sol fine for his right to justice.

29/ De même, pour toute plainte ordinaire qui aura donné lieu à un procès, si les délais sont demandés, il nous sera payé, après sentence, cinq sols pour droit de justice.

Also, for every normal complaint which leads to a lawsuit, if an extension of time is asked for, we will be paid, after the sentence falls, five sols for right to justice.

30/ De même, quiconque fera défaut le jour que lui aura assigné le bayle sera condamné à deux sols et demi d’amende pour droit de justice et en outre aux frais légitimes occasionnés à la partie adverse.

Anyone who does something wrong on the day the representative told him, he'll be condemned to a two and a half sol fine for rights of justice and the legal costs needed by the opposition.

31/ De même, notre bayle ne doit recevoir ni les frais de justice, ni les gages jusqu’au jour où il aura fait exécuter le paiement de la chose jugée à la partie qui aura gagné le procès.

Our representative must not receive the money from justice until the lawsuite has finished and one side has won.

32/ De même, pour les procès en matière d’immeuble, il nous sera payé après jugement cinq sols pour frais de justice.

For lawsuites concerning houses, we will be paid five sols after the judgment.

33/ De même, dans toute plainte suivie de procès, l’auteur de la plainte s’il n’apporte pas des preuves suffisantes, sera condamné à nous payer cinq sols d’amende pour droit de justice et à réparer les frais occasionnés à la partie adverse.

Also, in all complaint followed by a lawsuite, the person that complains if he doesn't give enough evident proof, will be condemned to pay us a five sol fine for rights of justice and the legal costs needed by the opposition.

34/ Le marché devra se tenir le jeudi et si un boeuf, une vache, un porc, une truie d’un an ou au-dessus sont vendus par un étranger un jour de marché, le vendeur nous donnera un denier pour le droit de leude. Pour un âne, une ânesse, un cheval, une jument, un mulet, une mule d’un an ou au-dessus, le vendeur étranger nous devra deux deniers pour droit de leude. Au-dessous de cet âge, il ne paiera rien. Pour une brebis, un bélier, une chèvre, un bouc, une obole. Pour une saumée de blé un denier ; pour un setier un denier ; pour une hémine une obole pour droit de leude et de mesurage, pour un carton il ne sera rien perçu. Pour la charge d’un homme de coupes de verre, un denier ou bien une coupe de la valeur de un denier. Pour une saumée d’objets de fer, de pièces de laine, deux deniers ; pour des souliers, des chaudrons, des chenets, des poêles, des trilles, des pots, des couteaux, des faux, des sarcloirs, des poissons salés et autres choses analogues, le marchand étranger donnera les jours de marché pour droits de leude et d’entrée, deux deniers. Pour une saumée et pour une charge d’homme des susdits objets, le droit est de un denier. Pour une saumée de vases et de pots, un denier. Pour une charge d’homme de ces mêmes objets qu’il porte, un denier.

The market will have to be on thursday and if a bull, a cow, a pig, of a year or more are sold by a foreigner on a market day, the seller will give us one denier for the droit de leude. For a donkey, a she-donkey, a horse, a mule of a year or more, the foreign seller will have to give us two deniers for the droit de leude. Below this age, he won't have to pay anything. For an ewe, a ram, a goat, one obole.

for a saumée (4 sesters) of wheat one denier; for a sester, one denier; for a hémine one obole for the droit de leude and mesuring, for a box, we won't collect anything.

For the charge of a glass-cuter, one denier or a cut equivalent to one denier. For a saumée of metal objects or whool, two deniers; for shoes, cauldrons, firedogs, frying pans, trills, pots, knives, scythes, salted fishand other basic things, the foreign merchant will give on market days two deniers.

For a sauméeand for a man's load of items, the right is one denier. For a saumée of vases and pots, it's one denier. For a man's load of these objects, it's also one denier.

35/ De même, les foires se tiendront dans la dite ville aux jours assignés et tout marchand étranger ayant dans ces foires un ou plusieurs ballots nous donnera pour droit d’entrée et de sortie, pour droit de plaçage et de leude, quatre deniers par charge d’homme, quels que soient les objets qu’il porte, un denier. Quant aux objets achetés, pour les usages ordinaires de la maison, l’acheteur n’aura rien à payer pour le leude.

Fairs will be held in the said town on assigned days and every merchant who's foreign to the town will have to pay an entrance and exit fee, also for the right to be in the town, four deniers per man, whatever items he's carrying, one denier.

As of the items bought, for use in people's houses, the buyer will not have to pay a tax.

36/ Chaque habitant, à sa volonté, pourra voir et faire construire un four dans la dite bastide et dans son faubourg ; et dans chaque four , qu’il soit destiné à faire cuire le pain pour vendre ou bien le pain du voisin, il nous sera payé , chaque semaine, douze deniers pour droits d’oublies.

Each inhabitant, at his will, will be able to see and have an oven built in the said bastide and in his Faubourg; and in each oven, wether it's for baking bread to then sell or your neighbour's bread, we will be paid, each week, twelve deniers for the droits d'oublies

37/ De même, les actes faits par les notaires de la ville auront la même valeur que tous les actes publics.

Also acts committed by the town's civil law notaries will have the same value as any public act.

Ces libertés et coutumes, avec tous et chacun de leurs articles ci-dessus, sont approuvés par nous, autant que le droit nous le permet. En perpétuel témoignage de quoi nous ordonnons d’apposer notre sceau sur les présentes. Fait à Vincennes, l’an du Seigneur 1256, mois de Juin --Eptalon (talk) 18:57, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

To-do list

This is a list of things that might need looking at, if we want this to get ready for VGA

• Red-links (most of them are cities that used to be bastides)
• Put charta into a collapsible box
• Look that we get the facts from Situation au XIIe siècle et au début du XIIIe siècle and perhaps Forme gothique d'aménagement du territoire
• Perhaps get the illustrations they have for the two axis design
• They have many nice illustrations we don't have yet.
• First go for GA.

More ideas?--Eptalon (talk) 17:02, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the list. No, no more ideas, but if we're going for GA, may ass well put it up soon. Yotcmdr ^{=talk to the commander=} 17:04, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Some issues to resolve

• I don´t think the following phrases or words are simple enough to be unlinked (either to Wikipedia or Wiktionary articles):
  • Fortified.

Linked --Peterdownunder (talk) 11:23, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

• • Market (since you link town, hill, square etc...)

Done --Peterdownunder (talk) 21:31, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

• • Defend

Done --Peterdownunder (talk) 21:31, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

• • medieval

Linked --Peterdownunder (talk) 11:23, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

• • architect

Linked --Peterdownunder (talk) 11:23, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

• • lord
  • mythical significance

A hard one, I changed it to historical importance, I hope I haven't lost the meaning --Peterdownunder (talk) 11:23, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

• • a crossroads of trade routes,. (and that comma needs to go too)

Changed sentence --Peterdownunder (talk) 11:23, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

• • foundation act

Added explanation --Peterdownunder (talk) 11:23, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

• • agriculture

Linked --Peterdownunder (talk) 11:23, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

• • political and social functions

Linked, changed function to gathering --Peterdownunder (talk) 11:23, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

• • Exceptions

Used different --Peterdownunder (talk) 11:23, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

• • axis of traffic

Tried to rewrite --Peterdownunder (talk) 11:23, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

• • it is 70 on 72m (I have no idea what this means...)

Done - made it 70m to 72m --Peterdownunder (talk) 21:31, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

• • Inorganic layout/embryonnary

Done - renamed it to Unstructured layout Peterdownunder (talk) 10:37, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

• • honorifics
  • Social norms
• Typo in the caption for the opening image ("Basides..."). Also, you can expand that image size per MOS from en.wiki, up to 300px is allowable for lead image.

Done. Typo fixed --Peterdownunder (talk) 21:15, 8 March 2009 (UTC), image expanded to 300 --Peterdownunder (talk) 21:31, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

• I would also start the opening sentence with "A bastide is..." since the singular is the title of the article.

Done. Opening sentence made singular --Peterdownunder (talk) 21:15, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

• "...following also applies" needs colon.
• Be consistent with the capitalisation of Bastide. If it isn´t at the start of the sentence then lower case should always be used as it isn´t a proper noun.

Done --Peterdownunder (talk) 22:09, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

• "The period when they were built was a peaceful one in the region." this is a sweeping generalisation for 400 bastides and probably should be cited.
• "50-55m" should use en dash and the units should be linked, preferably using the convert template so we can see these in feet as well.

Convert template used --Peterdownunder (talk) 21:15, 8 March 2009 (UTC) endashes added --Peterdownunder (talk) 22:09, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

• "grid-layout:Directly modeled on the case of Montauban." space after the colon, British English which seems to be used throughout would use "modelled" and "the case of" is redundant.
• "8m by 24m was a common size" needs feet again and preferably should be cited.

Convert template used --Peterdownunder (talk) 21:15, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

• "This varied between 10, and several thousand (3.000 in Grenade-sur-Garonne)", should be 3,000 (comma used as separator in English) and this sentence needs a full stop.

Comma added --Peterdownunder (talk) 21:15, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

• Streets section, apply comments above re: en dash and conversion. And apply same to % range in One-axis design section.

Done --Peterdownunder (talk) 09:20, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

• typo: exanple

Fixed Peterdownunder (talk) 11:26, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

• center is not British English, centre is.

see my comment below --Eptalon (talk) 10:59, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

• "Monségur ou Montastruc" I guess you mean or...

fixed--Eptalon (talk) 10:59, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

• Very worried about the Charta section as it has no links at all. I realise the text can´t be changed but it is extremely complex. I think you should reconsider it´s inclusion.

The text can actually be changed and simplified; it was done as a translation by hand of the source cited; the original text is (probably old) French.--Eptalon (talk) 10:59, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

• I may be wrong but I thought Jew was always capitalised?

• Well known or Well-known? Be consistent.

I can only see Well-know one. Yotcmdr ^{=talk to the commander=} 20:31, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• Page ranges in references should use en-dash, not hyphen.
• Same with date ranges.
• Consider making the references smaller text and make English and French references formatted the same..... The Rambling Man on tour (talk) 20:46, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Something to add on to The Rambling Man's comments: in the Legal foundations section there's a line that says "The people who lived in the city, looked free, but this freedom had limits:" Something's got to change there with those commas most likely. The first one should be taken out. Though, this whole sentence should probably be rephrased. "Looked free" isn't the best word choice when I think the article means to say "They seemed to be free." Am I correct? Looked wouldn't be a good idea because it implies that the people are looking with their eyes at something. Either way (talk) 03:02, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
    • Based on what TRM brought up: the sources in the section "reading material" are copied and pasted from here, which results in the inconsistency with properly formatted sources. Should we attempt to convert them to the {{cite book}} template or just remove them? Chenzw  Talk  12:32, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

More comments

• The metre/meter is one of six SI base units (the others are kilogram, Ampère, second, Kelvin, and mole); I personally see it as irritating that it is linked every time it is used; also to have to convert the measures to feet every time is more annoying than helpful (given that only the US, Liberia and Myanmar have not yet officially adopted SI units).
• As I have already stated in other places, the this article seems to use British English, so let's use British English throughout is a requirement that is too strong to make for this Wikipedia; it should therefore not be enforced here.

I am aware that this article is probably not going to make GA at the moment; I feel though that some people here are tweaking the GA/VGA processes, with the result that we get more false rejections, which really is a pity. --Eptalon (talk) 10:59, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Care to expand? The article is too complex, right? It would also be a pity to promote complex and incorrectly formatted articles, yes? Also, keeping consistent language but linking ambiguous words should be fine. Our readers may need Simple English but our editors are capable of using a single language throughout. I think a lot of people here are getting confused between our editorial group and our readership. The Rambling Man on tour (talk) 17:00, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Also the convert template can be forced to not link units quite easily. I agree that overlinking is unnecessary. By the way, the UK still uses Imperial units as the common type. Europe is trying to make us lose our pints of beer and pound of spuds but we're not having it. The Rambling Man on tour (talk) 00:13, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

GA stuff

• Previous unresolved comments still apply.

Doing. Yotcmdr ^{=talk to the commander=} 20:25, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• Why is "fortified" cited?

Read the ref to understand. Yotcmdr ^{=talk to the commander=} 20:21, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• Severe lack of specific references. Nothing to say that the list of "Reading material" is just a copy-and-paste from en.wiki. Fatal.
• Why are section headings alll questions? How many encyclopedias does one pick up to find questions as headings?

Fixed. Yotcmdr ^{=talk to the commander=} 20:23, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• Too many red links, even for a GA.

 Doing... Yotcmdr ^{=talk to the commander=} 20:23, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• Image sizes should meet en:WP:MOS.

They do. Yotcmdr ^{=talk to the commander=} 20:25, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• Too many headings - can we merge some of the lower level headings? The TOC is almost as long as the article...

Not true. Yotcmdr ^{=talk to the commander=} 20:23, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

The Rambling Man (talk) 21:35, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree with what TRM is saying here. I've fixed the question header and image size issue and I can live with the red links and number of headings (not ideal), but a lack of in-line citations is fatal for me (five pillars and all that). fr33kman ^talk 19:14, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

PM's review

I'll review this article by today night. At first look, it needs more refs, simplification and extensive copyediting. Pmlineditor  Talk 12:58, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Review:

Lead

• Link or simplify fortified

I will link. Yotcmdr ^{=talk to the commander=} 16:00, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

• A bastide is a fortified[1] town. - Ref after sentence

It was put there to emphasis the fact it is fortified as opposed to something else (see ref), not the fact that it's a fortified town. I know it's probably MoS. Suggestions? Yotcmdr ^{=talk to the commander=} 16:00, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

• They were built mainly in the south of France in the Middle Ages. - As this is VGA, source

Will look. Yotcmdr ^{=talk to the commander=} 16:00, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

• They were usually built in places that were easy to defend, such as the top of a hill or on a plain. - source

Will look. Yotcmdr ^{=talk to the commander=} 16:00, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Overview

• Bastides have the following features:
  

They are medieval cities.
There is an act of foundation, that is a law is made to start them.
There are historic documents written about them. - Use prose rather than *

• The Treaty of Paris (1229) is sometimes seen as the foundation act which made the construction of modern cities and bastides possible. - complex
• Section needs referencing

Purpose

• Unwikified section
• Most bastides where built in the countryside. They were basically to serve the needs of local trade (usually, agriculture). A few of them were built in places which were very easy to defend. Others were built where it was possible to defend them, but most bastides were simply built where they were needed. The time when they were built was a peaceful one in the region. - refs for entire paragraph

Builders of Bastides

• Redlinks?
• Bastides were built by people who had a high social status. These can be classified as follows: - Simplify and change "these" to "they"

I'll do the other parts later. Pmlineditor  Talk 15:40, 24 August 2009 (UTC)