Talk:Billy Graham

As of 25 October 2009, this article is a very good article. (compare to current). This means the community feels this article is written very well. You may see the vote that promoted the article here.

Untitled

Do not delete this page. I've spent hours and hours working on it from the English version. AmericanEagle 18:13, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

It wasn't deleted

So this article needs help being simplified. Will you?AmericanEagle 22:23, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Can you help?

I don't know how much it needs, but I;m going to be working on it. I can't, however, do it by myself. Thanks, AmericanEagle 02:28, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Changes

I have inserted two {{fact}} templates; I think it would be good if references could be found for them, or they should simply be removed. Especially the sentence about his preaching to more people in the world than anyone else before is very problematic; I remember Pope John Paul II preaching to literally crowds of people. So either relativise it in some way, or remove it. In any case, if it stays, it needs a reference. Personally I do not know what the "Christianity" template does here. It is true he was a "preacher" or "missionary"; but these do not show up in the template. --Eptalon (talk) 10:56, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Copyedits

I copyedited the intro and bio sections for simplification and linking. All (non cite news) references in these sections have been transfered to {{cite web}} references with additional info (authors, dates, etc). -- Creol(talk) 07:29, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

PVGA comments

• Lead should be a bit bigger. This is a long article so two decent paragraphs which summarise the article should do the trick.
• Infobox caption doesn't need a full stop.

   Fixed

• Infobox, wife year range needs en-dash, not hyphen.

   Fixed

• Any reason why Ruth is in italics?

   Fixed

• No need to link individual years (e.g. 2002 in the lead) unless it's really significant.

   Fixed

• Remove spaces between punctuation and references.

   Fixed

• However, he did not become a member of a local youth group because he was "too worldly." - I think this is a little odd - how does this logically follow?

   Not done Its within quotes... and sourced.

  I'm not suggesting it isn't sourced, I just don't understand why being "too worldly" would stop him joining a youth group. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:25, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

   Doing... Pmlineditor ∞ 12:26, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

  Wikted. Pmlineditor ∞ 12:55, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

• "he found it too hard on people in both the schoolwork and rules" doesn't make sense.

   Fixed

• "said that doing that would throw his life away" - "said that in doing that, he would throw his life away"
• Don't wikilink dates.

   Fixed

• "someone that was in a class with him" - not someone, be more specific - "a girl"?

   Fixed

Off out for a second or three, more soon. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:24, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

• "They also have 19 grandchildren and 28 great-grandchildren." needs citation.

   Fixed

• "There he won the baritone" - he won?

   Fixed

• "Beginning" section is unreferenced.

   Fixed The refs cover the paragraph. Pmlineditor ∞ 12:23, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

• "revival meeting" is not simple.

  It is linked... Pmlineditor ∞ 12:23, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

• "Los Angeles crusade.[4][1] " -make that inline link a proper reference.

   Fixed

• Time cover needs reference.

   Fixed

• Mike wasn't his birthname, Michael was.

   Fixed

• " Iron Curtain. [11]" remove space before reference.

   Fixed

• "Ruth, was born" no need for comma.

   Fixed

• "age 88, got treatment for " - "aged 88, was treated for..."

   Fixed

• "In Politics, Graham " just "politics" is fine.

   Fixed

• "he doesn't support" - does not.

   Fixed

• ""I'm out of politics."" reference all direct quotes.

   Fixed

• "and gave the speech at George H.W. Bush's" his what?

   Fixed

• Controversy section is a little complex. Think carefully and link terms and words that aren't Simple in the quotes.

   Fixed

• "Gallup's list of most admired people" if this is significant, it should be linked and have an article.

   Fixed

• "(right)" - not needed.

   Fixed

• Last two sections of Honors has only one reference - more needed for VGA.

   Fixed

• All references need an "accessdate" and, for instance ref 20, need to use the title parameter correctly so we don't have a bare url.

   Fixed

That's all for now. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:30, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Expect this to be done tomorrow. Pmlineditor ∞ 16:17, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Expect me to check it afterwards. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:32, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments TRM. ;) Pmlineditor ∞ 17:36, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

You're very, very welcome. I hope they help and that this can be another VGA. Cheers! The Rambling Man (talk) 17:35, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Everything done. Pmlineditor ∞ 12:23, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Simpleness of the English

I put this article into a Flesch-Kincaid calculator and the rating was:
Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 9.
Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease score: 54.

Which (according to this) is considered "fairly difficult" with only 54% of Americans speaking at this level. I read through some of the article and it doesn't seem that difficult to read, however I am a native English speaker. Bobertoq (talk) 21:42, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments. Reading test scores on computers often give differing results, and so need to be treated with caution. It may depend on which parts of the article are checked etc. I tested the article here and the scores were well within what is needed for Simple English:

• Flesch Kincaid Reading Ease 74.4
• Flesch Kincaid Grade Level 4.3
• Gunning Fog Score 4.7
• SMOG Index 4.9
• Coleman Liau Index 10.1
• Automated Readability Index 2.1

Scores are just one part of a complex process in deciding what is simple, basic vocabulary, simple sentence structures, links to more complex words and ideas, and common sense all play there part. --Peterdownunder (talk) 22:02, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Concerns

I'm concerned that the article isn't up to par with the VGA criteria:

• Eight DAB links

  6/8 fixed, not fixing George Bush one since the article is talking about the Bush family. Pmlineditor (t · c · l) 18:05, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

• Six Dead links

  5/6 fixed. I can't find a replacement for the Swirling Eddies tribute. It obviously exists, but isn't a very noteworthy song. Osiris (talk) 11:20, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

• The ref you use to reference "Graham has met every United States President since Harry Truman" says Graham has not met with current President Barrack Obama. Moreover, what makes you think it's a reliable source?

   Fixed. Replaced ref. Osiris (talk) 08:08, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

• Delink all dates

   Fixed. Easy enough. Osiris (talk) 11:20, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

• The lead doesn't adequately summarize his life per en:wp:lead

• Nothing is said of his parents, other than who they were. Their occupations/other information should be listed

  Added occupation and some other things. Osiris (talk) 11:48, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

• Ref 6 I can't get to load, link to Time itself rather than through an IP.

   Fixed. Osiris (talk) 11:24, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

• You should explain what a "revival meeting" since the revival meeting page doesn't tell me.

  Clarified on the linked page instead, otherwise the sentence gets a bit too long. Osiris (talk) 12:17, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

• He then went to see the local evangelist Mordecai Ham. don't see the relevance

   Fixed Osiris (talk) 11:53, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

• In his first year of college, he found both the schoolwork and rules too hard for people. for people or for himself?

  This was fixed.

• He almost had to leave school, but Bob Jones, Sr. noteworthy to explain who he was

  Mentioned. Pmlineditor (t · c · l) 12:08, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

• While he was at college, Graham would often take a canoe to a little island in the river ...cypress stumps. Unreferenced, and I'm not sure how this is relevant to Mr. Graham's life

  I think it shows how he got into preaching. I'll try and find a source. Pmlineditor (t · c · l) 12:08, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

• While he was at Wheaton College, Graham... Whoa, how did he get to Wheaton College?

  Explained now. Pmlineditor (t · c · l) 12:08, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

I stopped at (not including) the "Family" section. The article overall needs a copyedit to be clearer, and more sources. Someone can summarize the problems with the article better than I can, but right now the article defiantly isn't VGA quality. Albacore (talk · changes) 20:51, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

I'll try to work on improving it; let's see if I can do anything. I have lots of time the week after the next anyway... Pmlineditor (t · c · l) 18:05, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

All issues were addressed, article remains a VGA. -Orashmatash (talk) 17:17, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Unclear sub-section: National Day

This section is listed under Awards and honors. It does not seem to belong there and is unclear in places.

National day In 1971, Graham's hometown of Charlotte held a "Billy Graham Day", to which President Richard Nixon came.[42] On May 30, 1999, Graham was invited to speak right before the Indianapolis 500. On May 31, 2007, the $27 million Billy Graham Library was officially started in Charlotte. Former Presidents Jimmy Carter, George H. W. Bush, and Bill Clinton came.[43] In 1990, the band "The Swirling Eddies" gave homage to Graham with its song "Billy Graham" on the album Outdoor Elvis.[44]

• Why is Charlotte in italics?

• Is Billy Graham Day National Day? National Day seems to be the National Day of Prayer which is different and not in honor of Graham.

• Indy 500? Why?

• The paragraph seems to just be a grab bag. What is the connection between National Day and the Library? Why is a name-check in a pop song listed under National Day?

Basically, how much of this stuff is actually important, where should it go, and what needs to be corrected or made more exact? It's just kind of a mess. --Gotanda (talk) 00:08, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Red links alert!

Very good articles should not have red links. This article only has a few, but technically if it has red links it does not meet the "very good article" requirements. If we still want this to be a very good article, I suggest we fix this. Simple English Wikipedia needs more very good articles! This has been one since 2009.

Basically, what I am trying to say is these red links need to go away as soon as possible. 2600:4040:B509:9D00:5CF4:7F33:B9B1:7558 (talk) 04:08, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Billy Graham rule added

I did a new article on the Billy Graham rule. Several red links still remain Jonahson (talk) 12:17, 15 November 2023 (UTC)