Talk:Jupiter/Archive 1

Temperature

I removed the obviously wrong listed temperatures. -1250C is about 800 degrees below absolute zero and naturally impossible. The accepted values for temperature cause a problem here though. The surface temperature is usually listed as 165k (-108C) but that is at 1 bar. Since the surface of Jupiter is at over 1000 bars, from a "simple" standpoint, it is hard to call 1 bar the surface temperature. 1 bar is likely several miles (tens of? hundreds?) above the surface. Recent probes of the planet were destroyed in atmosphere at around 150C well before getting to the surface. As Jupiter actually radiates more heat on its own than it gets from the sun, its actual surface temperature (which we can't measure currently) is likely much higher although I would question the 1700C that was listed here. At this point, I am not certain actually listing a temperature is a good idea without a lot of explaination into the how and why of them. -- Creol(talk) 23:48, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

I suggest, that unless a miracle probe is invented tomorrow, and sent to Jupiter's surface through a wormhole, we remove the temperature from the article, or at least explain it as you did above. I think removing it from the article all together is not a bad idea as it is probably much simpler than going into a detailed explanation. --Isis♠(talk) 23:57, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

More points

(part 3)

• Most of the structural information is based on the Voyager data. The main problem is that the Red Spot now has a little brother in place of the host of small white spots recorded by Voyager.
• On the topic of structual info, how big is "Big". One of the major things you should always keep in mind when writing is your audience. Why are people going to read this? If they are in to Astronomy and want to learn more about the planet, then we got them covered. If they are the "John said Jupiter is 5K times bigger than Earth" type who is looking for an answer, we come up very short. Volume, mass and many of the little details commonly found in an infobox would need to be included as these tend to be the information many people are looking for when reading an article. All that is stated is its diameter (see next). The actual infobox we have is too complex in its current state, but much of that info should be here in some form (possibly a new infobox or an infobox-like table with simplier heading.)
• The diameter is listed as (width). Since this is an oblate spheroid, it technically does not have a width, just two axis with one longer than the other. Using the term "at the equator" is simple enough and accurate.

Getting closer. -- Creol(talk) 12:48, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

PVGA comments

Generell

• All years should be unlinked.

 Done Yotcmdr ^{=talk to the commander=} 21:39, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

• References accessdates needs to be updated.

Introduction

• Other gas giants include Saturn, Uranus and Neptune. - incomplete sentence.

I believe it is complete. Yotcmdr ^{=talk to the commander=} 21:41, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Anyway, it sounds odd in this way. Barras (talk) 22:07, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

• Jupiter has twice the mass of all the other planets in the Solar System put together. - the sun is a planet, too and Jupiter hasn't more mass than the sun.

The sun is a star, not a planet. Yotcmdr ^{=talk to the commander=} 21:41, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

You are right, my mistake. But it probably should be mentioned in the article. Barras (talk) 22:07, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

It should be as it is an interesting and important topic. Perhaps a ref. Pmlineditor 17:24, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

• Astronomers have known of Jupiter for thousands of years. - needs a ref

   Fixed Note added which explains this line. Pmlineditor I ♥ Gobby! 17:13, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

• At some times Jupiter can be the third brightest object in the night sky. - At which time?

   Fixed Shouldn't be "at some times"   it is always third brightest. Pmlineditor I ♥ Gobby! 17:06, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

• Jupiter has at least 63 moons. - needs a ref

   Fixed Pmlineditor I ♥ Gobby! 17:50, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

• Most of these moons are very small at less than 5km wide. - How many is "most" 35, 45, 56?

   Fixed Pmlineditor I ♥ Gobby! 12:17, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

• The four main moons are Io, Europa, Ganymede and Callisto. - Why are this the main moons?

   Fixed Pmlineditor I ♥ Gobby! 12:18, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

• Ganymede is the largest moon in the Solar System. It is bigger than the planet Mercury. - Relation to this planet is missing.

 Fixed Pmlineditor I ♥ Gobby! 12:19, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Structure

• Jupiter is one of the four gas giants. - Sounds redundant to the introduction.

 Fixed

• This is because it is made of gas. - er, there is no relation to the sentence it refer to.

 Fixed

• It is the biggest planet in the Solar System with a diameter or width of 142,984 km. - The "It" should be the planet name. Otherwise it could be a relation mistakes refer to the sentence before.

 Fixed

• In the table at the beginning, the amount of hydrogen stated is 85.8 to 89.8%. The source (Williams, Dr. David R. "Jupiter Fact Sheet", NASA) states that the amount of gas is "89.8% (2.0%)", meaning 89.8% plus or minus 2% (This is how it is interpreted on normal Wikipedia). 89.9-2=87.9 and 89.9+2=91.9. However, it is stated in the article as 85.8% to 89.8%, not 87.9% to 91.9%. Surely, this should be changed in the table at the beginning and in the article.

 Done

What it is made of

• Headline is a question, please rename it.

   Fixed

• The atmosphere, or air,… - atmosphere isn't the same like air. Air is defined as 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen and some minor other gases.

   Fixed

• It is difficult to learn about the core of Jupiter. - How says this? needs a ref.

   Fixed Removed; no verifiable source. Pmlineditor I ♥ Gobby! 12:23, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

• On Earth, this is liquid rock. - not interesting for this article.

   Fixed Pmlineditor I ♥ Gobby! 12:24, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Mass

• No links in section headers.

   Fixed

• Jupiter is twice as massive than all the other planets in the Solar System put together. - Like in the introduction. The sun included?

Cloud Layers

• zones/belts - why in italics?

   Fixed

• To show the difference the strongest tropical storms on Earth are about 100 km/h. - needs a ref.

   Fixed Pmlineditor I ♥ Gobby! 12:36, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

• Scientists think this because spacecraft such as Voyager 1 have seen lightning on the surface of the planet and lightning needs water vapour. - very long sentence. Should be shorter and needs ref.

   Fixed

The Great Red Spot and other storms

• One of the biggest features in Jupiter's atmosphere is the Great Red Spot. - name the other ones. Which ones are the others (names, …).

   Fixed Changed heading since none are notable enough. Pmlineditor I ♥ Gobby! 12:38, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Magnetic Field

• Jupiter has a magnetic field similar to Earth's but much stronger. - How is "much" defined? Twice or more? And ref needed.

   Fixed

Orbit

• Jupiter rotates, or spins around, very fast. - What is very fast?

   Fixed

• bulge - isn't easy, probably link it?

   Fixed

• Jupiter is the fastest spinning planet in the Solar System. - needs a ref.

   Fixed

From Earth

• The first person known to really study the planet was Galileo Galilei in 1610. - needs a ref.

   Fixed

• He was the first person to see Jupiter's moons Io, Europa, Ganymede and Callisto. - needs a ref.
• Thousands of astronomers on Earth watched this happen. - needs a ref.

   Fixed

From spacecraft

• First section/part needs a ref.

   Fixed

• steered - not simple, link probably.

   Fixed

Future

• Juno - why in italics?

 Fixed

• JIMO - why in italics?

 Done Exert 16:55, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Moons

• Jupiter has over 63 known moons. - If they are known, the right number and not "over".

   Fixed

• Because of the way they orbit Jupiter, gravity affects three of these moons greatly. - Which ones?

   Fixed Already mentioned. Pmlineditor I ♥ Gobby! 13:00, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

I think that should be enough for now. Barras (talk) 21:26, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

More comments

Introduction

• is the largest planet in the Solar System. - needs a ref.

   Fixed

• The other gas giants include Saturn, Uranus and Neptune. - The other gas giants are Saturn, Uranus and Neptune. - is simpler.

   Fixed

• Jupiter has twice the mass of all the other planets in the Solar System put together. - How many is this and a ref, please.

   Fixed

• Referenc number one isn't really a good references.

   Fixed

• Reference number two links to http://www.etymonline.com/index.php? - this isn't the source and the access date should be updated.

   Fixed

• Reference number 3: access date should be updated. And the sentence shouldn't be a question.

   Fixed

• Jupiter has at least 63 moons. - List of Jupiter's moons meantion exact 63. But anyway, needs a ref.

   Fixed

• 54 or 55 of these moons are very small at less than 5 km wide. - needs a ref. It would be better with an exact number.

   Fixed

Later more --Barras (talk) 13:44, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

zOMG, more? Pmlineditor I ♥ Gobby! 15:33, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes more:

Structure

• diameter or width - either diameter or width.

   Fixed

• Reference number 6 should be updated (accessdate).

   Fixed

• surface - isn't simple: link or other word.

   Fixed

• estimated - isn't simple: link or other word.

   Fixed

• References 7 and 8 need access dates.

   Fixed

• Reference 9 should be updated (accessdate).

   Fixed

• These two planets have much less hydrogen and helium gas. - need a ref.

   Fixed

• The very high temperatures and pressures in Jupiter's core mean scientists cannot tell what materials would be there. - which scientists say so? needs a ref.

   Fixed Removed. Pmlineditor I ♥ Gobby! 17:02, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

• We cannot find out because we cannot create the same amount of pressure on Earth. - We isn't encyclopaedic.

   Fixed

• The pressure is enough - sounds odd. Probably a high missing?

   Fixed

• The outer core of Jupiter is thick, liquid hydrogen. - needs a ref.
• Reference 10 should be updated (access date).

   Fixed

• 1317 Earth sized objects could fit inside it. - needs a ref.

   Fixed

• Layers - isn't simple: other word?

  No, layers is layers. We can't make every word simple. Pmlineditor I ♥ Gobby! 17:02, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

• Reference 12 should be updated (access date).

   Fixed

• Reference 13 is a question. Other wording, please.

   Fixed

• Most of the clouds on Jupiter are made of ammonia. - needs a ref.

   Fixed

• Reference 14 should be updated (access date).

   Fixed

• entire - isn't simple: link or other word.

  Disagree, entire is simple. Wikt link anyway.

• Reference 15 should be updated (access date).

   Fixed

• Storms such as these are common in the atmospheres of the gas giant planets. - Also common on other gas giants? needs a ref.

   Fixed

• Storms can last for hours or as long as hundreds of years in the case of the Great Red Spot. - needs also a ref.

   Fixed

• Reference 16 should be updated (access date).

   Fixed

• The magnetic field is probably caused by the large amounts of liquid, metallic hydrogen in the core of Jupiter. - a sentence with probably needs a ref.
• orbit or go around - either orbit or go.

   Fixed

• Reference 17 should be updated (access date).

   Fixed

• comparison - simple? I think it should be linked.

   Fixed

Later more. --Barras (talk) 18:50, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

TRM notes

Not at all worried about updating accessdate for sources - if they're live, that's all I care about. But, some things I noted from a quick read.

1. Planet should be linked in the opening sentence, not afterwards.

    Fixed

2. Why is the mass expressed as "1.8986×1027 kg"? What do you mean? Should the 27 be superscripted? Either way, this isn't Simple.

    Fixed

3. "Jupiter is be the third " isn't English.

    Fixed

4. "The four main moons are Io, Europa, Ganymede and Callisto since they are the largest" no, they're not called those because they're the largest, this needs rephrasing. I know what you're trying to say, but perhaps just state "Io, Europa, Ganymede and Callisto are the largest"

    Fixed

5. Linking to Moon is a bit confusing as the article spends most of its time talking about our Moon. Especially when you use the same link to talk about Earth's moon later on in the article.

    Fixed

6. You can make the lead image bigger - up to 300 pixels per the en.wiki's MOS.
7. Helium is linked twice.

    Fixed

8. Gas isn't linked at all.

    Fixed

9. "These two planets have much less hydrogen and helium gas." reference please.

    Fixed

10. And for the rest of the composition section.

     Fixed

11. "Earth sized " needs a hyphen.

     Fixed

12. Section headings - avoid The so "Great Red Spot" is fine. Also, no overcapitalisation, so "Magnetic field" instead of Field. Research and Exploration can be "Research and exploration".

     Fixed

13. Plural of spacecraft? Either just spacecraft or spacecrafts - you seem to use both.

     Fixed

14. Avoid squashing text between images as you have in the "From spacecraft" section.

     Fixed

15. Great Red Spot doesn't need to appear in Other pages as you link to it in the article.

     Fixed

16. All references should have accessdates (not saying you need to update the ones that already do, but refs 7 & 8 for instance don't have an accessdate at all). Publishers and dates of publication are also required if they are available for each source.

     Fixed

The Rambling Man (talk) 08:20, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Infobox

The Infobox was taken from enWP and simplified. Pmlineditor 12:59, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

In the infobox

1. The atmosphere figures were plus OR minus 2% so the range should be 4%, not 2%.

    Fixed Pmlineditor 15:58, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

2. What is AU?

   It is astronomical unit; can you please fix it? Pmlineditor 15:58, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

3. Link equator.

    Fixed Pmlineditor 15:58, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

4. Link adjective.

    Fixed Pmlineditor 15:58, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

5. Link north pole but be careful not to just link to Earth's north pole.

    Fixed Pmlineditor 15:58, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

6. Composition is not simple.

    Fixed Pmlineditor 15:58, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

The Rambling Man (talk) 15:44, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Two more thoughts

• The Galileo mission in 1995 is the only spacecraft to go into orbit Jupiter. - is --> was?

   Fixed Pmlineditor  Talk 08:01, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

• The other websites should be formated like the references with {{Cite web | url = ...}}.

   Fixed Pmlineditor  Talk 08:05, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

--Barras (talk) 21:52, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Grammar: fast/quickly

I want to be careful because it's a well written page but the line:

• "Jupiter rotates, or spins around, very fast." should end with "quickly" since we need an adverb to match "rotates"

Cdehaan (talk) 21:35, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Very fast = quickly; so I don't see any reason to change it. Regards, Pmlineditor  Talk 16:50, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

I would agree with Cdehaan, it should be quickly. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:00, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

 Fixed Pmlineditor  Talk 16:18, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Why?

Why is the VGA icon at the bottom of the page? Classical Esther^♣ 03:22, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

It isn't; at least on my browser it's showing up in the top right. Lauryn (u • t • c) 03:23, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

On my browser, Firefox, it is. Battleaxe9872 ^文/ _テ 20:16, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Wrong iw-links

There are some template-iws on this page. I believe it's because of wrong use of includeonly/noinclude in Template:Audio-IPA or Template:Audio-IPA/doc, but I'm not able to fix it myself. --Wikijens (talk) 14:09, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Comments

• Refs 11, 12, and 16 need page numbers

  11, 12 replaced by another ref. Attempting to fix 16. Pmlineditor (t · c · l) 16:31, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

• Ref 8 I'm not seeing where you get Anonymous (March 1983) from.

  Removed. Pmlineditor (t · c · l) 16:33, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

• Ref 10 is a dead link. The following statements are now longer cited and need updating:--Peterdownunder (talk) 07:40, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

1. This is eleven times bigger than the diameter of Earth.[10]
2. The outer core of Jupiter is thick, liquid hydrogen.[10]
3. Jupiter is twice as massive as all the other planets in the Solar System put together.[10]
4. The magnetic field is probably caused by the large amounts of liquid metallic hydrogen in the core of Jupiter.[10]
5. Jupiter rotates, or spins around very quickly.[10]
6. Jupiter is the fastest spinning planet in the Solar System. It completes one rotation or spin in 10 hours.[10]
7. Eight spacecraft have either flown past or visited Jupiter since 1973.[10]

• Ref 13 is a dead link

13 Jupiter is the third brightest object in the night sky. Only the Earth's moon and Venus are brighter.[13]

• Ref 27 is a dead link

The Earth's magnetosphere does not even cover its moon, less than a million miles away.[27]

• Ref 6 needs cite web format

   Done Pmlineditor (t · c · l) 16:37, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

• Ref 43 doesn't reference what the article says

 Fixed -deleted--Peterdownunder (talk) 07:40, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

• Reference 1 the date parameter should be consistent with the rest of the references

  The references use the YYYY-MM-DD format, and ref 1 seems to do the same. Pmlineditor (t · c · l) 16:37, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

• Ref 19 I don't see the referenced material. Good news, though, it's warm (29°C, 84.2°F) in Johannesburg

the strongest tropical storms on Earth are about 100 km/h

Albacore (talk · changes) 16:01, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

More comments

Comparing with enWP, I would like to see added short sections on the state of the 'metallic hydrogen' and on the core temperature. Both seem to me to be significant facts (or, in the case of the core, estimations). Macdonald-ross (talk) 17:34, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Trojans

I've reworded this in simple fashion, resisting the temptation to get into Lagrangian points (fascinating mechanics). The original did not say there were two groups, and it is necessary to say that IMO. Macdonald-ross (talk) 08:59, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Jupiter's brightness

Intro lists J. as third brightest in the night sky. This is correct, except the first two are the Moon and Venus, whose brightness varies greatly according to their phases. The only real point is that J. is bright enough to be seen, and so the ancients knew of its existence. Macdonald-ross (talk) 16:13, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

VGA maintenance

• Ref - "Juno: A unique spacecraft on a critical mission" - does not seem to have anything about Juno, the spacecraft. DJDunsie ^{(talk · changes)} 17:59, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Correct - needs to be fixed.--Peterdownunder (talk) 12:56, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

 Done -deleted ref, the fact was already cited with a NASA page, so it is not needed--Peterdownunder (talk) 06:46, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

• The publisher of the first link of the Other websites is NASA's Solar System Exploration NASA. Is not the extra NASA on the end confusing? DJDunsie ^{(talk · changes)} 19:14, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

 Done It was indeed, now fixed. --Peterdownunder (talk) 12:56, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

• Moons - there is doubled up linking to the moons which were linked earlier in the article.--Peterdownunder (talk) 07:40, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

The links are quite far apart from each other. Should we leave them alone? Thrasymedes (talk) 18:18, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

• Should the Related pages section be renamed Other pages? Other is on the BE 850 list but related is not. However, relation is on the list but a guess the simple meaning is a family member et cetera, not "the way in which people or things are connected or related". DJDunsie (talk) 09:57, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

 Sorted out DJDunsie (talk) 10:56, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

• The ring system section is not very good and needs to be re-written. DJDunsie (talk) 19:29, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

 Done by Peterdownunder (talk)

• Factual check - "The Earth's magnetosphere does not even cover its moon, less than a quarter of a million miles away." I cannot find a reference to support the sentence. This page seems to suggest that the night side could extend a few million miles. DJDunsie (talk) 07:37, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

• Ref 14 is a dead link "The biggest single object we can see in our galaxy, with the unaided eye" DJDunsie (talk) 07:37, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

"biggest": actually the word is "brightest". Macdonald-ross (talk) 11:25, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

However, the ref is called "biggest". I found it here. Is linking to this acceptable? DJDunsie (talk) 07:50, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Upon reading the page, I cannot find anything to support the claim. Delete the ref? --DJDunsie (talk) 07:58, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

The text of the reply makes it clear they discussed brightness rather than size. Probably a clerical error in typing the title. Anyway, it's obvious that the word "biggest" is ambiguous. Biggest as it appears on our retinas, or intrinsically largest? Astronomy deals with brightness as its basic metric for unaided vision, by means of the magnitude system. Macdonald-ross (talk) 08:46, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

• Ref 15 is a dead link "Highlights of the Galileo Probe Mass Spectrometer Investigation" DJDunsie (talk) 07:37, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

this one we must try & fix. Macdonald-ross (talk) 11:25, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Again, it is at the Archive if this helps. DJDunsie (talk) 08:02, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

It does indeed! Thank you. Macdonald-ross (talk) 08:36, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

• Ref 11 "nasabook" is a dead link not at the Internet Archive. --Thrasymedes (talk) 21:18, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for identifying this problem. Am currently locating new refs to replace them--Peterdownunder (talk) 05:29, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

 Done--Peterdownunder (talk) 05:52, 1 April 2015 (UTC)