Talk:Selena

GA Discussion

Issues

Weak oppose - It's not that the word choice is wrong, it's just the suffixes you use on the words. I will give you an example, because I fixed a sentence that read: "Selena did not believed her best friend could do that to her", the word "believed" being the mistake, that should have been "believe". On a more positive note, it's a very well sourced and written article, everything about it is great except the word suffixes. Fix those, and I'll support this article all the way. Good luck! Orashmatash (t • c) 16:46, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

 Fixed I re-read the article and fixed what needed to be fixed. I hope I took care of that, if not can you tell me what else needs to be fixed?. Thanks, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 17:35, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

There are some English words that are still not used correctly, for example "Selena was given a museum..." The article will need full checking to fix this and similar problems. Also, as I do not know anything about her or her career, I am curious about her death. How and why was she killed? --Peterdownunder (talk) 05:27, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Well how would you state it? "Mirador de la Flor was created in honor of Selena"? In the "death" section it states that she was murdered by her friend/employee because (1) she was obsess with Selena (2) Selena was ending her friendship with her because she stole money from Selena (3) she couldn't bare the thought of losing Selena (4) she had homicidal impulse. Well #4 is on the Murder of Selena article which I am expanding. I'm not sure if that should be included in the article, please correct me if I'm wrong. Best, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 03:01, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

 Fixed. Thanks, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 19:51, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Comments many issues. A sample from first para of the lead:

• Disambiguation links, including Madonna and pitch.
• Don't wikilink dates.
• Shouldn't Mexican American be hyphenated?
• Where's the reference for "Mexican Madonna"?
• "was born as the youngest child. " obviously. There couldn't have been a younger child than her when she was born (I assume you mean her family)?
• "She continued to do so for eight years straight" -> "She won the award eight consecutive times" or similar.
• "a female–singer" no need for en-dash.
• "In 1992, Entre A Mi Mundo helped Selena to tour in Mexico." sorry, not sure how an album helped her tour?

The Rambling Man (talk) 12:33, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

(4) Selena was born the third (last) child of her father and mother (5) how is consecutive simple? (7) in Latin barriers, a female is not seen by males as a "competitive" in any form of music. In Mexico, they do not like Mexican Americans for some reason, Selena broke that chain with Entre a Mi Mundo. The source is there, I'll fix the others. Thanks, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 13:35, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps you're missing my point, I found that much wrong in the first paragraph of the first section of the article. It needs serious work before it can be nominated as a PGA. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:57, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

I added over 50,000 bytes of sources and I'm not going to give up on the article just yet :) Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 01:14, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm actually almost frightened that you might have too many sources. Do some of these statements really need to have 7-9 sources? The excess of numbers in superscript interferes a bit with the reading flow. Most of the issues in this article are on account of the English being slightly awkward in areas. Here are a few quick comments relating to that, although this isn't an exhaustive list in any way.

• "A lot of candlelight vigils were made" - I'd say "held" instead of "made."
• Overall, the introduction seems really choppy. I know that you're trying to make it simple, but sometimes it reads like a laundry list - "This happened. This other thing happened." and so on.
• "When Samora had seen a second doctor" - "saw", not "had seen".
• "Selena's father Abraham Quintanilla Jr," - either put commas around the name or remove the comma entirely.
• "Abraham was amazed that his daughter had a perfect pitch" - I think - and I'm not sure - that you don't need the "a" before "perfect pitch".
• "He built a dance floor where his children can perform together." - "could", not "can".
• "Because he wanted them to grow up to know what their heritage is." - Sentence fragment.
• "Because of her performance schedule was becoming much bigger." - Another sentence fragment.
• I've noticed that you seem to do weird things with appositives. Consider setting them off with commas. (e.g. "In the same year, Chris Perez who was a Rock musician was asked to join "Selena y Los Dinos" - "who was a rock musician" should be set off with commas.)
• "Selena confronted her father the next day after radio stations publicity announced their marriage." - "publicly", not "publicity"

There are more problems, but I'm a bit short of time right now. I would suggest that you fix these and proofread the article a bit, because a few of these are quite obvious. Hope that helps. [+piccolo] 01:29, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

 Fixed (the ones you pointed out). Any more? Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 01:48, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

As per above, you need to ask for someone to copyedit the whole article. I can find problems with just about every sentence in the article and I don't have time to (a) fix it all for you (b) comment on it all for you. It's just not ready. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:09, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

As per above. Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 14:22, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

As per above. The article is nowhere near good enough for GA. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:25, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Just c/e the article of the best of my ability. Is there anything that I missed? Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 16:40, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry to say it's still inadequate. For example, let's look at para three of the lead:

• "Selena's death became a sad event" no, it "was" a sad a event, and it affected people in Hispanic communities. It did not "become" a sad event.  Fixed
• "A lot of candlelight vigils were held, as well as tributes from fans" this sentence structure implies that tributes were "held", you don't normally "hold" tributes, and what, exactly, do you mean by this anyway?
• Don't link dates like April 16. Particularly when there's nothing of relevance on that page.
• "It helped Selena to become the second–fastest selling female artist, only behind Janet Jackson" second-fastest should use a hyphen, not an en-dash, and you don't need "only" here, as since she's second, it should be obvious that there's "only" one person ahead of her.  Fixed
• "Her album sold 175,000 copies the first day when it was released" -> "Her album sold 175,000 copies on its day of release".
• "The album then became the second–highest debut" highest what? Presumably you mean "The album went on to be the second-highest-selling debut album..."?
• Again, don't need "only".  Fixed
• "In 1997, Warner Bros. released a movie about her life which helped Jennifer Lopez's career." be clearer here, was it the movie or "her life" which helped Jennifer Lopez's career?

Just not good enough I'm afraid. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:55, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

I fixed a few of these in my copyedit yesterday without knowing you had listed them here. Goodvac (talk) 17:27, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

"Early success" section comments:

• "He later said that he felt guilty about having Selena to get married." What does this mean?
• "The song peaked at number-one on the Billboard charts." Remove "at number-one". "Peaked" means "number-one" if I'm not mistaken.
• "Selena was called the "Mexican Madonna" but always believed in family values and never swore." Make it clear that this is a contrast. Selena, unlike Madonna "believed in family values and never swore".

Goodvac (talk) 17:45, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

(1) Selena's father felt that it was his fault (being overly protected) that pushed Selena to elope Chris. (2) well "Peak" in charts means the highest ranking of the song/album/etc. So if a song debuted at 26 and it peaked at 2 this means that the song had the highest chart number at 2. I hope that explains it :) (3) well Selena empathizes family values and she had never used curse words. Best, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 17:56, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for clearing up my misunderstanding of "peak".
So this is supposed to be a contrast to Madonna? Goodvac (talk) 18:02, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

I will copy-edit the article for you, as well. This is a well sourced article, it's long as well, it'd be a shame if it was un-successful. Orashmatash 18:05, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks buddy! Best, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 18:13, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

@Goodvac, she was described as the "Mexican equivalent of Madonna" but Selena valued family and never used curse words. I don't know about "contrast"? Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 18:15, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

In other words, did Madonna use curse words and not value family? That's what the "but" implies. Goodvac (talk) 18:18, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Well I don't listen to Madonna's music but Madonna was or still is a "sexual symbol". Selena's image was clean, not too sure about Madonna's so I would suggest "She was called the "Mexican Madonna" but unlike Madonna, Selena valued family and never cursed"? Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 18:23, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Excellent! Does the source say that? Goodvac (talk) 18:32, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

This states that "Like Madonna, Selena was known for sexy stage costumes, including high boots and bustiers. But she was also emphasized family values and was married to band member Chris Perez." Perhaps add the part about "sexy stage costumes"? Goodvac (talk) 18:42, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Orashmatash, I think you may have changed the meaning of a sentence in your copyedit: "She completed mailed homework..." → "She did and mailed homework..." The former statement means that homework was mailed to her and she completed it. The latter means that she completed homework and mailed it somewhere. AJona1992, can you clarify which meaning is intended? Goodvac (talk) 18:37, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

1 comment for "Death" section: "This event had mixed to negative reactions from other Americans as well." What does this mean? Goodvac (talk) 18:32, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Americans (White Americans) did not believe Selena's death was "huge" compared to Mexicans (or Hispanics) who felt that Selena's murder was huge even more darker then JFK's death. Not a lot of Americans took kind to Selena's death, Howard Stern (for an example) make fun of everyone who were mourning. Many Americans in Texas wrote to newspapers (some even in curse words) about the decisions George W. Bush had made for "Selena Day". Hope this covers that, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 01:14, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

I am just going to raise a few points I ran into while copy-editing (I'm not done).

• In the "Early success" section, how did Selena help other artists sign with recording labels?
• In the "Early success" section, what does "He later said that he felt guilty about having Selena to get married" mean? That will need re-worded. Orashmatash 18:51, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

• AJona1992 answered that above: "Selena's father felt that it was his fault (being overly protected) that pushed Selena to elope Chris." Feel free to implement a clarification. Goodvac (talk) 18:52, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘
Yes, that will need to be put in. I have another issue:

• In the "Later success" section, how did "Donde Quiera Que Estes" help Selena to tour? Will need reworded. Orashmatash 18:56, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

(1) Tejano singers never signed with a major recording label because the genre was not popular. Selena had made it popular among young people and the record labels began signing Tejano artists. (2) I already addressed what that meant above this discussion Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 01:11, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Source problems

• http://www.spanishtown.ca/enterstory5.htm (152) is a press release. Goodvac (talk) 19:20, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Are press release allowed? Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 01:11, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Is there even a policy/guideline/consensus that says that press releases are not allowed? While press releases can sometimes be biased, it doesn't mean that the information in them is not reliable. Orashmatash 15:07, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

I found this press release at Univision's website. The press release is about one of Univision's shows. Thus, it's not a third-party reliable source. Goodvac (talk) 17:12, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

I can't find other primary sources for this claim. What about directly using the Univision source as the citation? Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 18:43, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

You shouldn't be using primary sources. Use third-party, secondary sources like newspaper and magazine articles or books. Goodvac (talk) 17:36, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I search google.books and google.news but nothing comes up about the show breaking any records for that channel. There may have been small newspapers (like in Texas or California) that could of covered it. But I can't find them online and I don't have any in my home that could be of any help. Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 17:45, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

It didn't take long for me to find this and these. Goodvac (talk) 18:00, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Press releases

In answer to the above there is this from the Wikipedia:Notability (music) guidelines: These sources do not show notability:

• Press releases, other publications where the musician or group talks about themselves.
• ll advertising that mentions the musician or group, including manufacturers' advertising.[note 3]
• Unimportant articles that simply show performance dates, release information or track listings

You have already have enough reliable sources to show notability. The press release provides evidence that something took place, it does not show why that was important or should be included.--Peterdownunder (talk) 22:10, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I agree with Peterdownunder, the non-notable references should be removed. Orashmatash 13:38, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Well the press release that is in question was written in 2005, Selena died in 1995 so she couldn't be talking about herself lolz. Which sources are not notable so I can remove them? Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 17:45, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

All of the references that meet the criteria that Peter just described are not notable. Orashmatash 17:47, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I think that we are misapplying these guidelines. These guidelines intend to say that press releases, advertising, etc. do not show notability. We use this guideline only if a subject's notability is in question (say, it's at RfD). When assessing sources on their reliability, however, we must look at WP:RS and exercise common sense. Goodvac (talk) 18:03, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Comments

My copy-edit is complete - Okay, I read over the article and fixed all issues that I could find. It is of good quality, but it may need a few more copy-edits because I didn't really get to spend as much time on it as I wanted to (I need to go somewhere in a few minutes). Good luck with this article! Respectfully, Orashmatash 19:39, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks buddy! Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 01:14, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Is the article ready?

Is the article ready to be renominated for GA status? Best, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 18:49, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

I'll have a read over it and get back to you. Regards, Orashmatash 18:51, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 18:52, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

In fact, scratch that. You will probably want to get The Rambling Man to review this, he's the expert. Orashmatash 18:57, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Well even though you are right, I really want the community (as well) to tell me if it is ready or not since this is a collaboration. I'm going to send TRM a message if he would be willing to review this article. Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 19:09, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

No, it's not ready. Why have you not replaced the press release source? Ref 163 and ref 129 are unreliable also.
And have you fixed The Rambling Man's suggestions above and addressed "Selena was called the 'Mexican Madonna' but always believed in family values and never swore"? You need to implement clarification if reviewers think it's unclear. We're not going to do everything for you; we tell you what's wrong or unclear and you fix it. Goodvac (talk) 22:17, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

I already addressed that I can't find any other source online and offline for the Selena VIVE claim. That other claim I can remove since there are over 6 sources that supports that claim. I believed I fixed that comment about her being the "Mexican Madonna", I'm not too sure how I can simplify that one (if its not yet simplified). I understand but no one was giving my any feedback so believe otherwise. Best, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 22:21, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

I gave you at least three sources above for the Univision concert.
Yes, you explained what the "Mexican Madonna" sentence means, but you didn't add it to the article. I also suggested some other content ("Selena was known for sexy stage costumes...") that could be added there. Goodvac (talk) 22:29, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Oh I'm sorry I didn't see it. I'll add all three for verifiable. I thought I had added it I will add it now. I will also add that statement as well, but will that be under the last section (before death)? Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 22:40, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Alright I  Fixed all of that. Is there any other sources in question that I can replace? Best, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 22:54, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! Now please address The Rambling Man's comments above. Goodvac (talk) 00:53, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

 Fixed :). I hope that takes care of that. Best, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 15:13, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Further developments

Are there any further developments that should be made? Also can I nominate the article at WP:PGA? Best, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 00:38, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Some comments

Still some way to go for me.

General comments

• Why are so many citations needed for single specific facts? Four for the Coca Cola spokesperson? Seven (!) for "however, she did not start recording songs until a year later"... You only need citations from reliable sources and if they're reliable and the fact they're citing isn't particularly subjective then a single reference should suffice.

I left claims with a max of 4 sources while other a max of 3. Best, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 17:23, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

• References:
  • Don't use CAPITALS EVEN IF THE WEBPAGE DOES (e.g. ref 18), make it properly formatted.
  • Don't link dates in the references (e.g. ref 3).

I don't, its like that for some reason

• • Don't have bare URLs (e.g. ref 130).
  • Don't be inconsistent with book references (e.g. compare ref 70 (page. 123) with ref 71 (page 124) with ref 77 (p. 120) with ref 81 (, p. 134).
  • Check for repeated refs (e.g. ref 86 and ref 92 are the same).

Since I've removed a lot of sources I am unable to find any repeated refs, if there are any I'll remove them. Best, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 17:23, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

• • Be consistent with author formats, e.g. Last name, first name or First name last name, but the same throughout the article (e.g. compare ref 157 "Leila Cobo" with ref 158 "Mark, Schone".
  • Make date formats internally consistent (e.g. compare ref 151 "Retrieved 18 October 2011" with ref 152 "Retrieved April 29, 2010."
  • Make references in numerical order (e.g. "In 1986, she released Alpha.[36][6][7]")
• Where is the discography and filmography referenced?

Huh?

• Ensure "facts" in the lead are expanded upon and referenced in the main part of the article (e.g. where is "It helped Selena to become the second-fastest selling female artist, behind Janet Jackson." referenced and expanded?)
• Make sure the references actually cite the facts (e.g. where does ref 169 provide evidence for "As of 2011, Selena has sold 52,300,000 copies worldwide. She is also among the best-selling artists in the United States."?)

I removed the "among the best-selling artists" and record sales because of this discussion so I found this source and replaced it with the sales given.

• Don't use Wikipedia as a reference (e.g. ref 173).

Is it still there?

I haven't started looking at the prose, so if we can get the technical aspects above resolved, I may move on to that later. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:21, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

I  Fixed all issues of concern (I believe). Best, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 17:23, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Things

• He called it "Selena y Los Dinos",[14] which was an Italian slang word for "the boys"."

  I don't speak Italian, but I'm guessing it means "Selena and the boys"? If so that should be clarified.

  Yes, should be in {{lang-en}} format?

  I just mean explain it means "Selena and the Boys" instead of just "the Boys" (also caps?)

   Fixed

• "Abraham did not like Perez because of his image"

  What was wrong with his image? Too sleazy? Up-market? What?

  He was a rock n' roller and her father believed he would be a bad influence on his children.

  I see. That should be explained in the article.

   Fixed

• "Selena's fans were minorities in the world. Selena gave them a voice. She also spoke to them and told them that they can do anything they set their minds to."

  This is obviously a quote? Its a little strange. You should say "Selena said..." or whatever... It sounds like its a fan-page or something with that quote...

  Suggest on removing? The quote came from the Biography series on A&E.

  Not necessary to remove it but just reword it so it doesn't sound POV.

   Fixed but it might need some c/e I believe.

• Also I've just tidied some things up. The article seems like its just a list of facts rather than an article. I've done things like this, removing full stops and continuing sentences on to make it flow better. Normandie 13:48, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

  Thanks for copy-editing :-) Best, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 14:15, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

  You are welcome. :) I don't do this often and should do more. It was only a quick look and I'll try to review further later. Normandie 15:11, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

  Well its very much appreciated. Happy holidays, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 16:20, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

comment

This is a very minor comment, but it is the first thing I noticed: the caption of the infobox pic reads "...statue that was made in honor for Selena." I've always heard the phrase as "in honor of", which also seems to make more sense. So is there any particular reason this is different? PrincessofLlyr ^talk 03:17, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Not sure, but I'll change it. Thanks :-) Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 15:13, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Statue guidelines

Are statues supposed to be in italics? Currently I have Mirador de la Flor like that, but I just want to know if this is okay? Best, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 00:51, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Too much detail?

This article contains too much detail for an encyclopedia which makes it look unprofessional IMO. For instance, how is "Samora and Selena's father, Abraham Quintanilla Jr, were told they were going to have a son. They did not choose a name for a girl if the baby actually turned out to be a girl.[5][7] Another mother who shared the room Samora was in had told her about the name "Selena".[5]" relevant? Moreover, there are too many citations for everything. Moreover, some of the sources don't even state what they are supposed to... for instance, in the part about "Best-selling Latin album of all time", the Chron.com reference only says Amor Prohibido reached #1 in the US, and not that it is the best selling record of all time. I've serious doubts about the factual accuracy of this article. If I can, I'll do a detailed review, but at this point in time, this is nowhere near a GA. Pmlineditor (t · c · l) 10:13, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

I've completed all issues you have stated. Is there any others? Best, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 15:04, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Fancruft?

In the "legacy" section, I am not sure if these statements are fancruft and should be removed from the article. Please tell me which ones I should remove? Thanks:

1. Selena continues to outsell many living artists.
2. Many music critics believed if Selena were alive, she would have surpassed the record sales of Madonna, Gloria Estefan, Paula Abdul and Whitney Houston.
3. The Guinness Book of World Records named Selena as the "most dominating artist".
4. She is the only deceased celebrity who continues to compete with today's pop stars.
5. In 1998, People named Selena one of "The Most Intriguing People of The Century".

Best, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 23:32, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Not fancruft if it's reliably sourced and, if necessary, attributed to someone within the text. I touched on the second one below (think there might be some original research there), and "many" is a weasel word. To rectify the problem, either say "[Newspaper] claimed that many music critics..." or "[Critic] claimed that if Selena were alive..."

The Guinness thing is a little confusing. What was the record? With the way you've written it, it might sound as though that (being the "most dominating artist") is the record. I would expect to read something more specific.

The first one looks okay to me, presuming it's adequately sourced. The others I think you might have removed already. Osiris (talk) 12:49, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

I don't have the book with me, I've got the information from here and found the book information here. Should I remove it from the article? Best, Jona^{talk to me} 16:17, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Up to you. If you assume the IMDB writer is telling the truth and that's the title used in the GWR book, then that's okay. Osiris (talk) 23:59, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Well IMDb has a negative reception from Wikipedians as being "unreliable" and "editable by anyone" so it could be that a fan entered that information because I've searched it in google.books (archives) and found nothing along those lines, then again the Book of World Records is not accessible at the moment from google so that's why I am a bit iffy on weather or not it should be included or not. Best, Jona^{talk to me} 18:30, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

I see. If you're unsure about the reliability of the source, then maybe just remove it to be safe. Osiris (talk) 09:28, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Good article review

This looks like a pretty good candidate to me. I think if you work quick enough, you can probably get it up to standard easily enough. The prose is acceptable for a good article. The references are all reliable that I can. I just have a few concerns about how much they verify what's written here. I came across more than a few instances where what's written in the article doesn't really match up to what's written in the reference. One example:

Many music critics believed if Selena were alive, she would have broke the record sales of Madonna, Gloria Estefan, Paula Abdul and Whitney Houston.

You give two references for this, both of which use the same quote from one critic who says that Selena "could bury them" (whatever that means). So that might be one, but it doesn't exactly verify the claim of "many music critics".

•  Fixed Jona^{talk to me} 15:50, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Some simple rewording and in-text attribution could fix that, I suppose. Another example of something that could use that:

...were compared to reactions to Elvis Presley and John Lennon's deaths.

By whom? I'm not sure what the reference says because I can't access it. Perhaps you could provide a quote.

• Is this a reliable source to use? It says "The tragic shooting death of Tejano singer Selena spawned a reaction within the Latino community that can be compared to the reactions to the deaths of Elvis Presley and John Lennon." Jona^{talk to me} 15:50, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Do you know where that line is originally from? It gets 18,000+ hits on Google, so I thought it might be from one of the posthumous album's notes...? Whatever it comes from, I guess what you've linked is okay as a source. Osiris (talk) 23:56, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

No I don't but it has been quoted in many of her documentaries and since this ref can be accessible I thought it would be better. I have added the source to claim. Best, Jona^{talk to me} 18:28, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Another example:

Most white Americans in Texas did not believe that Selena's death was something "big"

According to whom? In fact, that claim isn't referenced at all. It seems like a bit of an odd thing to read unless it's a direct quote or something.

•  Done Jona^{talk to me} 16:14, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Other things

• The opening sentence describes her as a dancer, but the article doesn't touch on that point. That's probably the most important line in the article; it should be a short description of what the person is notable for. Is that point particularly relevant when summing up Selena in a single sentence? If so, the article should probably cover it. If not, the reader is going to wonder why it's mentioned.

• I can't find any sources that state she was a dancer, she's more known for her singing and clothing store so I removed "dancer" from the lead and infobox. Jona^{talk to me} 16:14, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

• The wikt links to testified and eligibility lead nowhere. Those are just a couple I found, but there could be others. Though, both of those could easily be substituted with simpler words.

•  Done Jona^{talk to me} 16:14, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

• A few of the items under "References" aren't actually seen used as inline citations. Are they used? If not, move them to separate section.

• Which footnotes are you talking about? Jona^{talk to me} 16:14, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

• The link to Phonetics is a bit of an egg-link. Linking to such a broad topic is probably not going to be helpful to the reader as it wouldn't contain all that much on perceptual phonological development. By "listening to others speak" is simple enough, so I would suggest just removing the link.

•  Done Jona^{talk to me} 16:14, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

• Make the date style consistent. As an example, there is 16 April 1971 in the first section and April 16, 1971 in the lead.

•  Done Jona^{talk to me} 16:14, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

• Was Geogre W. Bush the governor of Texas in 1995? If so, please put Governor at the front of his name. Need to know how much authority he has to declare tributes and such.

•  Done Jona^{talk to me} 16:14, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

• This is a bit picky, but I always get confused when I see the word "Indian" used as an ethnonym for anyone other than people from India. For simple's sake, since there aren't any other Cherokees in the world, can we just say "Cherokee" instead of "Cherokee Indian"?

•  Done Jona^{talk to me} 16:14, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

• The philanthropy section needs some simplifying work. Contains metaphorical elements ("gave them a voice" and "at her peak"), which need to be put in basic terms. I might have a few more specific suggestions later.

• I believe I have  Fixed the complexity of that section. Jona^{talk to me} 16:14, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Will you please let me know on my talk page when you've replied? Thanks. Osiris (talk) 12:46, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Looks good. The only thing I still have a concern over is the sentence Most white Texans wrote to the Brazosport Facts and asked why Selena's death was such a big deal. Do you mean to say that "most" of the people writing to this pubication were White and from Texas? Or that some white Texans chose to write? If you cut that line out it will also help with the flow. If you keep it, it probably needs to be modified to match the source and I would suggest moving it after the George W. Bush bit to keep the story flowing.

The last thing is that the new images probably need to be staggered in a way that doesn't leave text squished between two objects. See MOS:IMAGES (third point). Osiris (talk) 23:56, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

I have  Fixed everything you pointed out here in this review. Thanks for the review, Jona^{talk to me} 18:28, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, could you take another look at that? Those last issues are still there... Osiris (talk) 09:31, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Looks like it's been cut out of the text in this edit, so that solves that I guess. Osiris (talk) 10:43, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Not bad

But I think the article could be further simplified. Eliminate all sentences joined with and, but, because, etc. Make these one long sentences into two stand alone sentences. Oregonian2012 (talk) 00:19, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

 Done. Thanks for your input! Best, jona^{talk to me} 23:31, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

References

I am having a bit of an issue with some of the referencing. My key point was while looking for a Mexican Madonna reference (found the "Queen of Tejano music" reference although it is not marked as referenced..) The second note of her Mexican Madonna naming, "Selena was called the "Mexican Madonna", but unlike Madonna, Selena valued family and never cursed.[57]" is noted with a reference, but reading the article linked, the only reference I could find to something in that sentence was ".. friends describe her as deeply family-oriented." Of the 3 points in that sentence which I would think would need referenced, the name and the fact she never cursed would rate much higher than family-oriented (which doesn't exactly mean she valued family, only that she was focused on it). Oddly, the other article on that linked page was the one that references her Queen of Tejano music title, but the reference was not included in the article. --Creol(talk) 15:55, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Would this, this, this and this be okay to cite the claim of her being called the "Mexican Madonna" in the article? Best, jona^{talk to me} 14:29, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Also, I don't really understand what you are trying to say about the "Queen of Tejano music" title. Can you explain further? Thanks, jona^{talk to me} 14:30, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

As those links are already present in the article, just linking them to one of the Mexican Madonna mentions would cover it. I would probably go with the second reference, but from a better source:

• Lemieux, Josh (3 April 1995). "Legions of Fans Visit Selena's Casket". AP. Retrieved 14 May 2013. The Grammy-winner was an idol to young Hispanic women, a Mexican-American version of Madonna.

Linking to the AP source itself clears up the author, date and publisher since the newspaper is just republishing that person's work. It is also easier to read the article than it is to read an image scanned from a newspaper. As to the Queen title, it also is not referenced, but in the news image for ref 57 (Prodis, Julia (7 April 1995). "Many Americans Asking "Who is Selena?"". Park City Daily News. Retrieved 11 October 2011.) there is a second story on the page "Shock Jock Apologizes For Radio Slam Of Selena" which includes the quote "who was dubbed the Queen of Tejano music" which perfectly references that title. It was just odd that the ref is in a side story on the page of a story used to ref something else.--Creol(talk) 15:04, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

I fixed that and added a source for the "never curse" claim. Thanks, jona^{talk to me} 15:23, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Is this okay?

Is this sentence okay to add or is it too fanish? "Her friends and family called her a daredevil. Her biggest fear was that no one would come watch her perform. At her peak, she continued to ask her father if anybody had showed up." jona^{talk to me} 17:09, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Seems good, as long if you have a reference about it. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 23:30, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Alright I'll add it to the article with the sources provided. Thanks! jona^{talk to me} 02:28, 15 July 2013 (UTC)