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Paralympic athletes

You're doing a great job with all the articles about the Paralympic athletes! They have references and categories, and they're not too complex. I was wondering, why do you not say what each athlete's disability is? I think that would be of interest. Just a thought. :) --Auntof6 (talk) 08:57, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Paralympic categories

Would you rename your new categories so that the names make some sense on their own? "B1", "1 point player", etc. don't mean anything to people who aren't familiar with the fact that paralympic athletes are classified. Thanks! If you want some help doing the renames, just let me know what you think good names would be and I'd be glad to help! I was thinking maybe something like "Paralympic B1 athletes", "Paralympic 1 point players", etc., but you could probably say if those would be good. Thanks!

By the way, you can reply here so that the conversation stays in one place. I will be watching your talk page so I will see if you reply. --Auntof6 (talk) 06:55, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Ooops. Yeah. :( Sorry about that. Rename assistance would be good. They are all classification types for disability sports. So yeah Paralympic B1 athlete, Paralympic B2 athlete might make the most sense for the truly ambiguous ones. The basketball player ones could probably just have 1 point wheelchair basketball player if that clarifies that. I have tried to put small explanations at the top of each category page because they have no articles or the information is in an article not featuring that name. (B1, B2, B3 is in the skiing classification article and the goalball article. The point players is in the wheelchair basketball articles. The others do not have pages yet to define what that means. --LauraHale (talk) 07:04, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

OK, here are the categories I see, with suggested new names. Tell me what you think.

Current name	Suggested name
1 point player	Wheelchair basketball 1 point players
2 point player	Wheelchair basketball 2 point players
4 point player	Wheelchair basketball 4 point players
B1	Paralympic B1 athletes
B2	Paralympic B2 athletes
S3	Paralympic B3 athletes
Sighted guide	Paralympic sighted guides
T42	Paralympic T42 athletes

Question: Are these classifications specific to the Paralympic Games, or are they used elsewhere as well? If they're used only for the Paralympic Games, then we should have the word "Paralympic" in all the names. If not, then it shouldn't be in any of them. --Auntof6 (talk) 09:33, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

These classifications are used across disability sport. en:Para-alpine skiing classification, en:Para-swimming classification and en:B1 (classification) give an idea more about the process. Disability sport classification is actually a bit better but clunkier. (The International Blind Sports Association actually oversees blind sport classification. The IWBA oversees wheelchair basketball. The highest level of competition is the Paralympic Games.) I have been using the word types instead of classes when trying to simplify because it appears to make sense. --LauraHale (talk) 11:06, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner. Would something like "T42 (disabled athletes)" be more generic? --Auntof6 (talk) 21:37, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Preference is for disability as opposed to disabled if possible. (There is a lot of politics around the difference.) Otherwise, yes, that would be fine. I have generally been careful to only create categories when there are 3 or more in a particular classification. --LauraHale (talk) 01:39, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Then how about "Sportspeople with disabilities, type T42" (for example)? (I recently changed our categories to use the generic term "sportspeople" instead of "athletes".) That could go under an umbrella category of "Sportspeople with disabilities". --Auntof6 (talk) 02:39, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

That would be fine. Saw the other change. It makes more sense that way. :) --LauraHale (talk) 01:57, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

OK, all done! Let me know if you have any questions. --Auntof6 (talk) 08:47, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

categories

I just remembered, for categories that contain people, we're supposed to use "nationality" instead of "country". I'll go ahead and create the new categories for the Paralympians and move everything over. Sorry I didn't catch that sooner! --Auntof6 (talk) 23:35, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Given the ... fun issues with Spain and nationality, can there be an exemption carved out to refer to people as being from Spain? (Otherwise, I worry we will have people at some point coming here and saying people from Barcelona are not Spanish but Catalans...) --LauraHale (talk) 23:39, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

I would say no. In this case, Spanish refers to the country, not the ethnicity. Interesting info, though -- I didn't know the Catalans were separatist. Is it kind of like Quebec in Canada? --Auntof6 (talk) 23:52, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Moving to Spain soon. There is ... an issue with Catalan Wikipedia where people from Spain represented Spain at the Olympics, except where they are from Catalonia... and then they are from the nation of Catalonia. (This does not even get into the problem where they use the flag of Catalan instead of the Flag of Spain.) While a rather fine linguistic point, mild paranoia of this eventual bleeding here. :( --LauraHale (talk) 23:55, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Congratulations: You have been given a Barnstar! This is to show appreciation for all your contributions regarding the Paralympic Games!--Auntof6 (talk) 00:23, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much. :) I appreciate it. :) --LauraHale (talk) 00:26, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

categorizing by location

I went through the Spanish Paralympians and assigned categories based on where they're from. Where you had assigned someone to a nonexistent category, I looked for as many people as I could find who fit the category. If I found at least three, I created the category. If I didn't find three, I removed the redlinked category and put the person in a category for the autonomous community they're from. In some cases, they're in a "People from xxx" category, and in some cases they're directly under the main category for the community.

Also, for the categories you created that fit under a "People from xxx autonomous community" category, I moved your category under that one.

In general, I like to do this categorization starting with the highest level. In this case, that would be autonomous community before province or city. I don't make any rules about it, but that's how I see it. Feel free to let me know if you have any questions. --Auntof6 (talk) 22:02, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

I appreciate all the work you did with that. :) My Spanish geography is somewhat limited, and sorting some of those things out was getting a bit perplexing. I will try to do a better job categorizing by location in the future, though not always certain how well that will work out. Focusing more on the other bits. (Would like to get all the 1996 Summer Paralympic medalists from Spain to have articles. I think I have everyone who medaled before those games.) --LauraHale (talk) 01:37, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Spanish athletes category

I just noticed that last month you created Category:Spanish track and field athletes. We already had a category for that, called Category:Spanish athletes. I have merged the two categories and redirected the one you created. You might notice that the corresponding category for the United States is called Category:American track and field athletes‎. That is because, "athlete" is a more generic term in the US, and the term "track and field" is used for what people in most other countries call "athletics". I just thought you'd like to know. --Auntof6 (talk) 07:54, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

The reason I did that at the time was because the athletes category at the time had a number of people not from track and field. But thanks for fixing. :) --LauraHale (talk) 18:59, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Sort keys

Hello, Laura. I see you haven't yet run out of Paralympians to make articles for!

Say, take a look at the change I just made to Miguel Ángel Deniz Mendez. You probably didn't know, but in sort keys we don't include letters with accents or letters that aren't normally used in English. That's true whether the sort key is in a DEFAULTSORT or on a specific category. The reason is that if an English-speaking reader looks for an article in a category, they might not understand that those accented characters don't sort where they expect. I just thought I'd mention it since the Spanish people articles are likely to have those accented characters. Thanks! --Auntof6 (talk) 05:54, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Whoops. Will try to be more conscientious about not including them in the future. Thanks for the heads up. I think I have 75% of the articles created, but still working through a few remaining sports including swimming. Would like to be done in a week or so. Going to talk to some one tomorrow and mention the articles. --LauraHale (talk) 06:08, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

No problem. If you want, when you have them all done, I can go through them with AutoWikiBrowser AutoWikiBrowser and take care of that. Let me know. --Auntof6 (talk) 06:25, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

That would be much appreciated. I know I have issues with Spanish geography and some of the English names for that. I am not quite mastering that. :( The problem with accents is the Spanish Paralympic Committee's website does not add accents to names: There are ones that should probably be in the article name that are not. I have found a number when I went hunting for interwiki links. (I have really, really been enjoying editing on Simple English Wikipedia by the way. It is a very welcoming place. While I am only really creating lots of stub articles, it feels like I am adding things that matter. Hopefully, down the road, non-native English speakers will do a bit more editing here because of the articles.) --LauraHale (talk) 06:36, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Have you looked on Spanish Wikipedia to see what accents are needed? Here is the page there for Spanish Paralympians. Even if you don't read Spanish, you should be able to see what accents are needed, at least for the athletes they have there.

By the way, do I understand correctly from your edits that some of the disability classifications are subsets of others? For example, I see that you put T11 under B1. If that's right, then T11 should be removed from Category:Paralympic sportspeople by classification so that it isn't in two places in the same "branch" of the category "tree". --Auntof6 (talk) 07:43, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

I know a few names have them, and I have been looking for others. I will get a native speaker to go through them with me to make sure they are accented properly. Some of the ones done on English Wikipedia are not correct. As for the classification, they are not subsets. IBSA is in charge of classification for people with vision disabilities. The IPC is in charge of classification for swimming and athletics. To simplify things, the classifications for blind sport tend to be pretty compatible. Sometimes, like in the case of skiing, the IBSA classification names are used despite the governance for classification not technically being handled by them. (Other times like swimming and athletics, you have different classification names.) It gets some what confusing. (Swimming is actually worse, because you actually have 3 different classes for the same swimmer but they change based on the stroke in some cases like for the backstroke.) Cerebral palsy classification, like vision impairment, sometimes has parallels to other classifications but not always. I like the current set up more here than on en.wp because the classifications are important for understanding who competes against whom, and medals at major events. There are also different rules for different classes. It also better explains the type of disability because blind/vision impaired is a gradient. Amputation is a gradient. *babbles* I really love this topic. I could write a book on classification if I had the time.  :) --LauraHale (talk) 08:24, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

If the classifications are not subsets, then the categories should not be subcategories. Any given classification should be either directly under Category:Paralympic sportspeople by classification or under one of the other categories, but not both. Right now, the categories fir S11 and T11 are in both. --Auntof6 (talk) 19:09, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Being a vandal fighter

Hi LauraHale. Do you spend your time on SEW with reverting vandalism quickly? If not, do you want to know how to do it? --~ curtaintoad ~~ talk ~ 09:19, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

I do not know what SEW is. :( I mostly write about sport people. I see vandalism sometimes but most admins are very good here so I do not think about how to fight vandalism that much. --LauraHale (talk) 09:21, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Simple English Wikipedia. You can go to the recent changes section on the left of any page and revert vandalism there if you find some. :) --~ curtaintoad ~~ talk ~ 09:25, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Yes, I do watch New Changes. :) I make more problems there on accident than I create. --LauraHale (talk) 09:45, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Aragonese Paralympians

Hi Laura! Thanks for the suggestion! Yes, of course, I think that is a very good idea to have these paralympians on our Wikipedia, so I will do it! Now we only have an article about a paralympic sportwoman, this is en:Teresa Perales, a swimmer (I supose that you may know her, because she is the most decorated Spanish Paralympian in history). Maybe you could write also an article about her on simple English Wikipedia. Best regards! --Willtron (talk) 19:29, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Wow! So, you have interviewed her here in Zaragoza! Teresa is a very famous person in Aragon, she is probably one of the best known faces of Aragonese sport (even more famous than olympic athletes). She was also involved in politics (been deputy on the Aragonese Parlament during several years). I don't know her personally, but we have friends in common and they always describe her as a very charm woman. Regards --Willtron (talk) 20:00, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Deletion discussion on cawiki

You're probably aware of it, but this discussion on eswiki would probably set a precedent for similar articles on that project. The local notability guidelines say that the athlete has to have won in a major international competition. From my interpretation of the discussion, they're debating whether that means the person has to have won gold. Osiris (talk) 01:35, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Nelson Mandela

Hey. I believe we haven't met. I'm TDKR Chicago. I've seen your contributions here and there just great. I'm wondering if you can write some suggestions for making Nelson Mandela into a good article. You can write your suggestions in the article's talk page. Thanks. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 04:12, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

I have never written a Good Article on Simple English Wikipedia. :( I do not know what sort of advice to give. --LauraHale (talk) 16:38, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Auto-translations

Hi Laura. Can I please clear up whether you're using some sort of automated word substitution or translation or something. I noted this issue and several examples of it on Talk:Boccia after I corrected the issue in the article. I haven't looked closely at your work since then much, but I noticed what I thought might be it on your new article Guide skier, where you used "cannot see skier" presumably as a substitute for the adjective "blind". It doesn't work, though, obviously; it's not comprehensible English. That's why I thought it might be an automated thing...? Osiris (talk) 20:42, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

I sometimes use auto-translation. I did not for Guide skier. I was looking at the list of 1000 words used in Simple English and trying to be more careful and try to use more words from that list instead of words not on the list. I think it is causing some problems for me and resulting in clunky prose. :( And beginning to see that it does not make much sense. :/ It is much simpler to write simple biographies that talk about how a person performed in sports than to take on these topics. :/ (Feeling a bit disheartened because I thought I was doing a much, much better job at simplifying. Took article to GA and then it looked like I had completely stuffed up my efforts to simplify.) -LauraHale (talk) 20:48, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

You will get better at it with practise. It is great to see someone making an effort to keep it simple and experimenting with different techniques to find what works and what does not. Eventually, you will find the system that works the best for you. It just takes time and practise. I still find it very hard to translate whole articles, although some of the older editors can do it in a few hours. The word lists are probably a good guide, but to be blatantly honest I've never even looked through them... That's just me, though. Osiris (talk) 20:58, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

I wanted to create blue links for a number of articles on para-alpine skiing because I was having a really hard time simplifying them. (Plus, a lot of articles that do exist often are very short and do not have sources. I have spent enough time on English Wikipedia to want to source everything.) How do you simplify paraplegia without an article? Auto-translation leads to strange translations like "the condition being unable to use the legs and the middle of the body". This takes one word and makes it about 10. I have copy and pasted a few of those, and tried to then remove extra words that are not necessary for meaning... but it gets frustrated because it feels like the meaning is changed. Para-alpine skiing is the first article I have done major work for from translation. A few articles on en.wp are so poor quality (like en:Goalball) that I would not feel comfortable translating them. But yeah. I am reallly, really making the effort to simplify, cite everything, try to get stub tags, to understand the category structure, etc. Most short articles are my own, non-machine attempts to simplify. Copies over from en.wp I often use machine translation assistance. --LauraHale (talk) 21:12, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I find machine translation helpful for getting a general idea of what something means, but not for producing readable text. Some of the automated tools will "translate" by replacing words or terms with their definitions, rather than by figuring out a way to convey the meaning. That doesn't give good human-readable text. Actually, it's amazing they even manage to do that, given the way so many English words have multiple (sometimes even contradictory) meanings. --Auntof6 (talk) 21:50, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

┌─────────┘
What exactly are these machine translation tools? Are they available online? Absolutely the simplest way to write "paraplegia" is "paraplegia", but I hope you don't feel obliged to create an article for every complex term with a red link (for PGA you might need to). That would get very frustrating. Osiris (talk) 22:16, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

simplish is one of the auto-translation tools I know of. The definition parts happens a fair amount, though they do colour code the translation so you understand how things were translated. The problem is, I like to read feedback others get. When I read it, the feedback often includes "Simple English is more than making sentences shorter" which is why I have problems translating things at times. It is finding the balance between shorter and what words to use. :/ I explained on the page where I nominated the article that I created articles for all the topics, but not the proper nouns. (It is important to have an article about paraplegia. It is less important to have an article about the International Blind Sports Association. One adds meaning. One provides additional information.) --LauraHale (talk) 07:25, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Re: Para-alpine skiing

Hi! Thanks for your message. I am currently quite busy in real life so not sure I can commit myself to improving the article on it.wiki, but I'll give it a try if I can. Good luck with your GA nomination over here. --Snow Blizzard 10:48, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Suggestions

Hi! I've been reading through the articles pointed you pointed out on my talk page. They look fine so far, all are in simple English and are well linked when necessary. Just some pointers:

• delegation (under normal circumstances) would not be simple English and would need a link, perhaps to Wiktionary, although, you have linked that to an existing article here
• estimated (Neutral Paralympic Athletes) may not be the simplest; I'd suggest a link to Wiktionary.
• In articles where there are lists of athletes, it may help to give a link to the disability classification system (if there are articles) to give further clarification.

Other than those, you're doing well in terms of simplification. Regards, hiàn 03:41, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

I should have removed delegation from all of the articles as Auntof6 did that with one so I followed suit. There are not many articles about classification or the sport. I'd have to create a few and not the easiest things to simplify for me because some of it gets into technical medical and physiological type jargon. After I get the country articles more ready, I might work on those but I would want to create some of the sport articles first as the only one that exists is para-alpine skiing. And Yay! to being simpler. I have had big problems with that in the past. :D --LauraHale (talk) 10:07, 14 February 2018 (UTC)