Talk:Scottish Premier League

This article used to be a very good article. It was promoted on 31 January 2010 and demoted on 5 August 2011. This means the community feels this article was written very well, but is not now. You may see the vote that promoted the article here. You may see the vote that demoted the article here.

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Clarification

This article need some work.

There has been some criticism of the Old Firm, due to the fact that they hold such a strong position in Scottish football.

This sentence is uncited, and is vague. Why is it a problem for them to hold such a strong position in football?

they still cannot compete with other leagues for players due to the financial position of the SPL

"Financial" is complex, and I'm not sure how to reword it. That particular line is also uncited. It seems like they have too much of a strong domestic league? That seems like a lot of money.

That was a quick run, i'll probably get more to it later. Cassandra 20:43, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I have updated it a bit, added a source. :) ← κεηηε∂γ ^{(talk) (wikiproject collaboration)} 07:38, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

PVGA comments

• Bring it up to date. Currently it refers to the 2008/09 season in places, particularly the teams in the SPL.
  • Can you specify, I've had a look and cannot see. The teams listed are the teams playing. Inverness was removed and St Johnstone added. Kennedy (talk • changes). 20:42, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
    •  Done - Yotcmdr ^{=talk to the commander=} 12:57, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
• Records are "Accurate to December 2007". Can you please check them all?

All checked. Some wren't up to date. Others need refs. Yotcmdr ^{=talk to the commander=} 12:57, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

• Teams, their managers, their nicknames and their stadia are unreferenced. And it's not clear that the colours represent their strips.

   Fixed Pmlineditor ∞ 09:51, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

• Don't link individual years.
  •  Done - Yotcmdr ^{=talk to the commander=} 12:57, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
• References need accessdates, publishers, titles etc.
• Ref 4 is dead. And looked unreliable anyway.

   Fixed Pmlineditor ∞ 09:51, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

• Ref 35 (for the records) no longer appears to direct us to any records. Try this and this?

The two links don't include that information. Needs a new ref. Yotcmdr ^{=talk to the commander=} 12:57, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

• SPL seasons template looks really weird, all up on the right-hand side?

   Fixed Pmlineditor ∞ 09:51, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

• Check SPL template is up to date re:2009/10 clubs.

   Fixed Pmlineditor ∞ 09:51, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

• While a sponsor, not sure we need a link to the Clydesdale Bank.
  • Disagree, important terms should be linked, no? Kennedy (talk • changes). 20:42, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
    • Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. We don't need an external link to the bank... The Rambling Man (talk) 14:08, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
      •  Done - Yotcmdr ^=talk= 09:43, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
• Avoid bold links per the MOS (in the lead)
  •  Done Kennedy (talk • changes). 20:42, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
• Check facts like "17 clubs have played in the SPL" - I think it's 18 now.
  • I'll double check, but as St Johnstone played in the SPL before they were promoted this season, I'd assume its still 17, but as I say, I'll double check. Kennedy (talk • changes). 20:42, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
    • Changed to 18, per the all time table on the official website. Yotcmdr ^=talk= 09:58, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
• Scores should be separated by en-dash, not hyphens.
  • I think this was changed to hyphens recently, I'll check. Kennedy (talk • changes). 20:42, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
    • Changed to en-dashes. Hopefully not missed any. Yotcmdr ^=talk= 09:52, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

I'll do a more thorough review when these have been addressed. Cheers. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:07, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks TRM, I've added some comments above and will look into the rest. Kennedy (talk • changes). 20:42, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

More from TRM

• "since it began in 1998–99 [3], " it began in 1998, the first season was 1998–99. And move the reference to after punctuation wherever possible.
  • Done. Yotcmdr ^=talk= 11:04, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
• Infobox says TV partners are Setanta. Really? I'd check that out... This also affects the Television coverage section significantly.
  • Changed the infobox, with ref. The section needs doing. Yotcmdr ^=talk= 11:04, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
    • Updated section. Yotcmdr ^=talk= 11:13, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
• Official Website in infobox - no need for capital W as Website is not a proper noun.
  • Done. Yotcmdr ^=talk= 11:04, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
• " similar event in 1992 with the start of the English Premiership." needs citation.
• "12 places." teams?
  • Done. Yotcmdr ^=talk= 11:04, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
• "the table splits in " table is split in half?
  • Done. Yotcmdr ^=talk= 11:04, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
• "one more time" - once more.
  • Done. Yotcmdr ^=talk= 11:04, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
• "This does sometimes result " This sometimes results...
  • Done. Yotcmdr ^=talk= 11:04, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
• "3 – 0" remove the spaces. And do it for all scorelines.
  • Was only doing per what was said on the template doc.  Doing... Yotcmdr ^=talk= 11:04, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
    • I've tried removing the space, it dosen't change anything. That's how the template works. Yotcmdr ^=talk= 11:22, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
      • Then either modify the template or don't use the template. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:30, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
        • Is there a way to do an en-dash without the template? Copy and paste, maybe. Yotcmdr ^=talk= 11:59, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
• Link referee.
  • Done. Yotcmdr ^=talk= 11:04, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
• "Henrik Larsson was the top scorer (29 goals for Celtic) and was winner of the Player of the Year and Writers Player of the Year awards. The winner of the 2007–08 season was Celtic, and Rangers second. Scott McDonald was top scorer (25 goals for Celtic)." need references for these.

   Fixed Pmlineditor ∞ 09:52, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

• "Rangers to Tottenham Hotspur F.C. for £9 million" .. for the same fee.
  • Done. Yotcmdr ^=talk= 11:04, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
• League section is completely unreferenced.

   Doing... Pmlineditor ∞ 09:52, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

• Link Dundee.
  • Done. Yotcmdr ^=talk= 11:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

And fix the other issues I've already noted! The Rambling Man (talk) 10:45, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Fixed most of these. Others coming up. Yotcmdr ^=talk= 11:04, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Eptalon's review

Blurb/Intro

• The second paragraph of the intro in its current form is incomprehensible, and should be reworded; First sentence seems to be about popularity, and really needs to be reworded. From the second sentence on, I don't understand it at all; "leagues" are rated based on the scores of perhaps 3 or 4 clubs' results (out of the 16 or so)?
• Also make a difference between clubs from the league playing each other, and such clubs playing clubs which are not in the league.

   Fixed Pmlineditor ∞ 11:36, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

History

• Can we have a a neater separation into how it was before the change in 2000/2001 and afterwards.

   Not done Nothing about it on enwp, not much important either, imho.

• For the sake of completeness, it would be good mentioning reasons for the redesign of the system.

   Done

• The Winner of the first SPL...for Celtic) reads like a section of "fun facts"; if they stay they should probably be moved to a "(Sub)section of their own"

   Fixed Pmlineditor ∞ 11:40, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Competition format

• In League we learn that the season is from Oct. to May. In Winter break, it is said that the SPL decided to stop the Winter break, forcing players to play in January. Can we get this info perhaps a bit more compact, and not contradicting? ;)

  How is it contradicting? Pmlineditor ∞ 11:43, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

• Shouldn't third placed have a hyphen between the words?; In general for results: first number, space, hyphen, space, second number, forgetting one of the two spaces looks funny. Alternative would be first score, colon, second score (perhaps with space before and after the colon).

   Fixed Pmlineditor ∞ 11:44, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

• To refer to the seasons, wouldn't 2005/06 look better than 2005-06?

  The latter is the approved form. Pmlineditor ∞ 11:43, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Sponsorship

• Section to short for a first-level heading, merge somewhere else, or extend; imo to at least 3 paragraphs (i.e. triple in size)

  Already done. Pmlineditor ∞ 12:00, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Media coverage

• Radio section too short. Extend.

   Done Pmlineditor ∞ 12:00, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Teams

• Old Firm gets its own section, the others just get a list?

  Most important, influential. Pmlineditor ∞ 12:00, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

• Past teams: Can we get a table, perhaps with played from, to, and the reason for quitting?

   Done

Varia

• 12 teams have 8 managers?
  • 7 Now. Craig Levein moved to Scotland, Jim Gannon (Motherwell) was sacked and Jim Jeffries (Kilmarnock) left by mutual consent. Kennedy (talk • changes). 20:31, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
• various red-links to fix

That's about all I can think of, for the moment. Note: I am not into football, so don't ask me about the content. --Eptalon (talk) 16:16, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Looks like I've done everything other than the redlinks. Pmlineditor ∞ 12:00, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Redlinks  Fixed. Pmlineditor ∞ 12:23, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Ref #2

The claim that more % of the population watch football in Scotland than any other country in Europe, and its supporting ref, are ambiguous. Does it refer to the numbers standing on the terraces or the numbers watching on TV? The ref itself is a bit weak. Surely there must be statistics from the SFA that could be quoted? Macdonald-ross (talk) 17:16, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

While we're here...

Some notes that need to be addressed to ensure this keeps VGA...

• Red links aplenty nowadays... (four I can see at the moment).
• Ref placement needs checking throughout (e.g. ESPN [1]).

  I'm not sure what you want us to do here. Pmlineditor (t · c · l) 17:40, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

  Remove the space between the text and the ref, check others. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:41, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

  Oh, I see. Now done, thanks to Find and replace... Pmlineditor (t · c · l) 17:47, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

• "domestic football" is not simple.
  •  Done - Domestic is redundant anyway. Normandy ^(talk) 11:25, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
• Is "league" simple English?
  • Not really a hard word, but linked now. -Barras (talk) 19:16, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
• You have Rangers, but then Chelsea F.C., be consistent with club name formats.

  Fixed. Pmlineditor (t · c · l) 17:40, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

• Overlinking of Hibernian, check other links.
  •  Done I think. Normandy ^(talk) 11:25, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
• League section is unreferenced entirely.
• "to the football clubs pitch" grammar fail.
  •  Done - Football clubs is redundant Normandy ^(talk) 11:25, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
• "back to the dark ages" - what does that mean to a simple English reader?
  •  Done - Gave an explanation. Normandy ^(talk) 11:25, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
• First para of Euro qual section is unreferenced.
• No Scottish clubs in Europe since 2008?
  • Can't see where it says that so assume its been  Done already? Normandy ^(talk) 11:25, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
• First para of "Players" section is unreferenced.
• " is currently held by BBC Radio Scotland, " as of when?
• "However Old Firm games are broadcast when available on BBC Radio 5 Live and also on 102.5 Clyde 1." unreferenced.
  •  Done - Can't find a source to back it up and I've not heard of that so removed.
• "Every year since the SPL started one of the Old Firm has won the league. Only once, in the 2005–06 season, did the Old Firm clubs not come first and second in the SPL." ref?
• A number of the clubs are lacking manager refs.
• "losing membership." - not clear to a Simple English reader.
  •  Done Normandy ^(talk) 11:30, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
• Most of that table is unreferenced.
• Check record scores use en-dash, not hyphen.
• Consistent format for references, e.g. BBC or BBC or BBC Sport or BBC Sport...

 Done --Peterdownunder (talk) 23:38, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Need to be fixed, I'd hate to see this at WP:PAD. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:27, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

I'll try to fix these (hopefully) with the help of other editors. Pmlineditor (t · c · l) 17:40, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

• Date formats are not consistent in references --Peterdownunder (talk) 23:38, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
• Red links in league drop down box --Peterdownunder (talk) 23:38, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
  •  Done Normandy ^(talk) 11:30, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

'Split'

The league split is where during the season the league is divided into two sections. This is controversial and very different from the English Premier League. It should have its own section, and be explained carefully. At present it is tucked away in the 'History' section. Macdonald-ross (talk) 18:12, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Its also explained in the 'League' bit, but I've started a small section to itself. Ydennek ^(talk) 12:22, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Yes, but it's not made clear why this issue is so important and controversial. It is an example of why the article is at present not VG, never mind VGA. Macdonald-ross (talk) 11:25, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Redundent Page

This page is an out of date copy of this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Premiership much better page and should be removed. Eoghankll (talk) 11:27, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

It doesn’t matter. This is SIMPLE ENGLISH WIKIPEDIA, not ENGLISH WIKIPEDIA. Illusion Flame (talk) 11:36, 8 April 2023 (UTC)