User talk:Osiris/November 2012

Active discussions
Archive 12

Liberal Party of Australia

Hi Osiris, be careful adding the Liberal Party category to conservative politicians. Robert Menzies formed the Liberal Party in 1944, so earlier politicians were not part of it, eg Henry Lefroy. There was a Liberal Party around 1910, but it is not connected with the later party. Maybe a Conservative politician category maybe more accurate. The was also a Nationalist Party which is not the same as the current National Party. And the conservatives were split between Free Traders and Protectionists. --Peterdownunder (talk) 09:35, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Oh, thanks Peter. I'll fix that one. I was using category intersect so just copying the category's contents from the English wiki. I guess his article was incorrectly categorised over there, so I'll go and correct that too. I've run out of steam for now so the other parties will have to wait for their categories. Thanks for the note. Osiris (talk) 10:06, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Economics article

Does my expansion of the definition of economics in that article look to long or complex or is it acceptable? --RJR3333 (talk) 03:50, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

It looks pretty good. The little quote could maybe do with translating into simple terms, or maybe just explain what "scarcity" means or even replace the quote with a link to supply and demand. Osiris (talk) 06:53, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Robert Earl Jones compromise?

Hi. I've noticed that you and have been changing the birth date on the Robert Earl Jones article back and forth between 1910 and 1911. I changed it to "1910 or 1911 depending on the source", as there doesn't seem to be much consensus about the topic besides that he was born somewhere between 1900 and 1911.

Maniesansdelire 22:48, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Well, that's really covered already by the note I added: "Jones' date of birth has been reported differently by sources as being between 1900 and 1911. The most likely date is 1910, which is the date reported by the U.S. Social Security Administration." Meaning that his birth is registered with the state as 1910. All the media obits I've accessed appear to report his age at death as 96 (Boston Globe, Guardian, New York Times, Chicago Tribune, MSNBC). If there are reliable sources to match that (saying he died at 95), I've yet to see them. Right now the only year and age sourced on the page is 1910 and 96, which is why I changed it to suit. With that being the most official date, WP:WEIGHT indicates that we should use that but indicate that other sources have reported different years. Osiris (talk) 04:22, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
As I saw it after about thirty seconds of looking at the page history, the part of the article that was contested seemed to be the first sentence. I'm not exactly experienced with Wikipedia, so I just did what seemed right (to me), which is to add the uncertainty to the first sentence. I think you're right about 1910 being the most commonly accepted/cited date, and about putting it in the first sentence and adding a note at the end.
Although it still remains to convince
Maniesansdelire 01:41, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
Well what about the 1904 date of birth it is said by a family bible. So what year is it. — This unsigned comment was added by (talk • changes)
Thank you, Manies, for your help.  
If there is a family Bible or something that gives a different date, let's see it. But I've given my opinion, and I'll leave it at that, as I'm afraid I'm a bit busy with other things. Osiris (talk) 06:47, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
And how do you intend to see it. I don't have any pictures of the family bible. All I know is that a user on the English wiki said he or she was told by Matthew Earl Jones that the family bible says 1904. I don't have any other evidence besides what a user on the English wiki wrote on the talk page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs) 14:54 10 November 2012 (UTC)
Well, then it would be original research for us to give that date, at least until the fact is published by a reliable secondary source. "Even if you're sure something is true, it must be verifiable before you can add it." Osiris (talk) 15:19, 10 November 2012 (UTC)


I' was blocked by you...but I do not understand it

Because I have no any other Account.

I'm not this Person that you are claimed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs) 16:44, 12 November 2012 (UTC)


Before I tag any more of the files in Category:Wikipedia audio files (not to mention the category itself), is there a reason you categorized them instead of deleting them? I thought we didn't have that kind of file here. --Auntof6 (talk) 10:41, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Because of Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Files. Created the category because I figured it would be good to have a place where all these audio files can be managed from. Osiris (talk) 10:46, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
Ah! Thanks -- I (re)learn something every day! --Auntof6 (talk) 11:42, 14 November 2012 (UTC)


I know I may have been getting off to a bad start but I would like you to check this article out that I am planning to make, User:Clarkcj12/Guelma I would like to ask if it is okay, to bring into the main article namespace, it is originally from the English Wikipedia. I have put the required attribution template as well. --Clarkcj12 (talk) 15:06, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Au début

Please review my comments at User talk:Poopypoo#Au début. In my opinion, your response to the request for help here was reasonable; but this diff here convinces me that it is only a perverse joke. Of course, I join you in hoping that your point of view turns out to be justified ....

Translating from French to English, I wrote:

Le but de votre choix du nom est d'être choquant, n'est-ce pas? (The goal of your choice of name was to be shocking, wasn't it?)
Le nom en anglais est considéré comme provocateur. En effet, votre nom suggère que vous êtes seulement intéressés à cause de contrariété. (The name in English is considered provocative. In effect, your name suggests that you are solely interested in causing annoyance.)
Ce n'est pas un bon début. (This is not a good beginning.)

We'll see what happens next, if anything. --Ansei (talk) 18:57, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for speaking to him. It looks like a young kid, and if "poopy" is the most offensive thing he knows so far, then maybe he's just here for a laugh. If not, colloquial synonyms for faeces don't bother me so much as a user name, unless of course he starts vandalising with it. Osiris (talk) 20:32, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
This should also probably be mentioned. Using several thousand {{helpme}} templates isn't exactly a sign of being a Wikipedia user who does not need to be watched over carefully.
Sorry for the talk page stalker behavior, Maniesansdelire 21:58, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
Oh, yes, of course I'll be keeping an eye on it. Osiris (talk) 22:15, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

RE: Hyphens and AN notice

Understood. I'm already aware of the WP:AN discussion. I'm not going to participate in that discussion, since I don't want to encourage Ottava. Thanks for the message. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 22:42, 15 November 2012 (UTC)


There seems to be a problem with the template Template:Infobox settlement it is not displaying correctly like it used to, it happened last night. See Dublin for the example of what it looks like. --Clarkcj12 (talk) 15:08, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Looks fine to me. Can you give more details on what you don't think looks right? -DJSasso (talk) 15:14, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
Now it is, but then soon after that one is fixed Template:Navbox is having formatting problems as well. --Clarkcj12 (talk) 15:16, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
The templates don't seem to have been modified recently. Perhaps you can give us a screenshot of the problem (I can't seem to see anything wrong either)? Alternatively, it may just be an issue with the caching, try again while bypassing your browser cache. Chenzw  Talk  15:25, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
Yeah I don't see an issue with that one either. Could very well be the browser you are using as well. -DJSasso (talk) 15:32, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
Never mind, it was just the cache. --Clarkcj12 (talk) 18:06, 16 November 2012 (UTC)


I was just starting the article sorry I won't do it agin I will change the text next time I create or edit an article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Google9999 (talkcontribs) 16:32, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

No problem. As long as you know now, I look forward to seeing what you come up with. Osiris (talk) 03:08, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Article about Professor Maltsev

Are there any issues with the article I created about Professor Maltsev? Regular English wikipedia has an article about him and he's well known nationally to an extent because he is a prominent libertarian political activist and he has appeared on Glenn Beck's program and helped write books. --RJR3333 (talk) 05:40, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the tips

about writing in the approved style. It's quite a challenge. There seems to be some interest in trying to use this database as a link between the regular English one and other languages (in this case Bengali), so it is clearly worthwhile for more people to learn how to contribute here. Best wishes, Sminthopsis84 (talk) 14:06, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Jose Marti article

Hello sir. What do you think of my edits to the Jose Marti article? Are they OK? --RJR3333 (talk) 08:54, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

They look fine to me. Osiris (talk) 09:35, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Editing here

Greetings Osiris, I have been editing the English Wikipedia for years (about 400, 000 edits worth) but unfortunately I have come to a point where I just feel that my editing there is no longer needed or wanted so I have been thinking about coming here. I have read through the available instructions but I was wondering if you could offer any other advice for editing here, particularly how its different from the English WP.

Thanks in advance. Kumioko (talk) 19:52, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi, Kumioko. Always great to see another name willing to contribute! Editing is always wanted and needed here, especially from experienced editors such as yourself. It's not very different to the English Wikipedia at all – most of the basic policies are the same. The language and writing style may take a bit of practice to get used to, but you'll find plenty of editors happy to help you out on that.
If you're translating, try not to bite off more than you can chew (the longer the page, the more difficult it is to adequately simplify it). You also have to give attribution for any content derived from another Wikipedia.
There are a few little quirks here and there, but you'll pick up on those as you go. AWB is enabled, you can request access here. If you've got any other questions, just let me know. Our village pump is at WP:ST. Osiris (talk) 09:26, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
Thank you. Kumioko (talk) 13:21, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
One thing to note since I know you are a fan of automated editing is that it is downplayed here a lot. We generally only use it for specific short term tasks. I know its a hot button issue for you over on en so I thought I would let you know before it rears its ugly head that mass AWB editing tends to get people worked up here even more than they do on en because it can have a bigger detrimental affect on us faster since we are a much smaller community to try and clean up after such editing and since we actively use our recent changes log automated editing fills it up rather fast. Anyway if you do end up heading this way we are always glad to see new editors. -DJSasso (talk) 13:35, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
Thanks that's good to know. I wasn't really planning on using it for a while anyway until I figure out the ropes here a bit. I'm not even sure what edits AWB does here yet since I am sure that the list is much more limited than EN. I may not do that much anyway, just checking things out a bit. Just to clarify though since you brought it up and in contrast to popular belief, AWB has never really been a point of argument for me. What has been the predominant point of irritation is editors on En showing article ownership issues and not allowing other projects to tag the article and other editors not telling them its against policy and allowing them to continue to do it. When an editor refuses to allow another project to tag an article, that's a violation of article ownership plain and simple. Since there are no WikiProject's here though (or portals from what I can see), its a non issue. I sorta came here for a clean start though and since you and I have some history I might reconsider. I expected to bump into a few folks from EN but I was hoping for some I had positive interactions with. Kumioko (talk) 21:31, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
For what its worth, the only real issue we ever had was that wikiproject tagging stuff....and like you say we don't have that issue here so I can't see we would have any issue here. I stick by what I said, would love to see you edit here. The kind of articles you edit (military history etc) don't get a lot of attention here so you would be a big benefit. I too come here to get away from some of the junk on en so I understand. Either way its up to you :) There are only about 30 regular active editors on this wiki.... so not likely you will run into too many people negative or positive on this wiki that you know from there. -DJSasso (talk) 01:53, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
I consider our interactions with the WikiProject stuff quite important and your attitude of allowance to some editors to break policy by article ownership shows a serious judgment defect that I am not sure I can get past. Especially given your status here as an Admin and Bureaucrat. Your views in this very small community would logically taint the experience and my ability to be effective and to escape the unfortunate experiences at EN. Sorry if that's too blunt but my experiences with EN have also had the unfortunate affect that I have no desire to mince words and be politically correct. I tried it for years and it got me nothing but disrespect and drama. Kumioko (talk) 01:59, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for looking over those 2 articles

Thanks for looking over those 2 articles. I hope you don't mind a couple follow up questions just to clarify I got things right:

  1. Here the section is called Other websites vice External links right? Where is that written down so I can check it for other differences?
  2. When I add an article from EN I need to add the interwiki link and the talk page note right?
  3. Other than those 2 things do they look ok as far as writing? I'm still getting used to the Simply style of writing so I wanted to double check I simplified it enough, for lack of a better term.

Thanks again. Kumioko (talk) 14:28, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Hey, Kumioko. No problem, I go through all the new pages just about every day. Okay, the first one is in Wikipedia:Guide to layout, but the only other real difference is that "See also" is "Related pages".
It'd help if you added the interwiki, but if you forget it's not a big deal. I add it when page patrolling to make sure the bots don't get it wrong (some bots use "hints" and they're not always accurate). We don't normally create talk pages until someone has something to say or something useful needs to go there – [amend: oh, I just realised, the attribution note is what you meant; yes, please do add those].
The writing looked pretty good to me. Just in case you're confused by it, I'm guessing that the edit by Ansei here is a suggestion to replace quotations with your own summary of it using Simple English. From those two small samples I had, your own writing looks excellent. Osiris (talk) 14:59, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
Ok thanks, I'm trying to just do some simple ones to begin with to get the hang of it. Stubs mostly but I also added some other stuff and marked a page for deletion (vandalism). Kumioko (talk) 15:03, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
I just looked at the comments by Ansei and I had a question. He replaced a direct quote of the Medal of Honor citation with a simplified version, which is fine, but using the ENWP style as an example, wouldn't it be better to have the full citation in quotes with a simple explanation? In en, even with the full citation you should give a description of the events separately. Kumioko (talk) 15:06, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
That's a difficult question. It's really up to you. There are no guidelines governing quotes here, and there are no easy answers for how to deal with them. There's nothing that says you can't include official statements or, in this case, what the award citation actually read. If the vocabulary and syntax is complex, then I'd probably suggest having some kind of aid to help readers understand it. When the language is not English, then I'm sure translations are commonly styled as "official quotes" on the English Wikipedia...(?) The problem we have is that there aren't any sources providing translations in Simple English for such things. It's pretty short, so I don't see a problem in keeping the citation if there was a simple explanation alongside. It's just a matter of opinion, I guess. Osiris (talk) 15:41, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
Thank you. Makes sense. Kumioko (talk) 17:04, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Potential AWB edit task

I have asked for access to AWB for this wiki but before I start using it I am going to just do a review run to see what sorts of edits it does in this wiki. I assume that there are differences between this one and En but I'm not sure what they are yet. I may do a run that changes External links sections to Other websites though unless you think that wouldn't be appropriate. After reviewing the rules here I see that is the section header to use but I have found quite a few that say External links instead. Kumioko (talk) 01:35, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

I run it randomly to change External Links, but you are more than welcome to task. Its a standard find/replace on any runs I make. I also run it a lot for film->movie (movie is the simple term as film has more than one meaning) but that's a little trickier dealing with multiple usage and official titles (Cannes Film Festival) --Creol(talk) 01:46, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
Thanks good to know. I see there is also a Simple AWB Typo's page that I assume AWB will use as well. Thanks for the tip on Film to Movie as well. Kumioko (talk) 01:51, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
Does Simple use the same Section ordering as En? For example See also (or equivelent) comes before References, Further reading comes after that and External links/Other websites comes after that. I have some regex that will reorder those. I just have to tweak it for the naming differences of Simple which is...simple. Kumioko (talk) 01:53, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
We generally keep to that order but other than Other websites being last, its not an issue if it isn't precisely that way. --Creol(talk) 02:00, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
OK good to know thanks. Kumioko (talk) 02:02, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Request to Restore a template

I would like to request that a restore happen to Template:Wikitravel as I was going to use it on the Riau Islands article, as an external link. As it links to the WikiTravel site, which is found here. --Clarkcj12 (talk) 15:55, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Please use Template:Wikivoyage-inline instead, to link to wikivoyage:Riau Islands. Osiris (talk) 16:06, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Re 'Green Party of Pakistan'

Dear Osiris, hallo. Reg the above article on the supposed Green Party of Pakistan -- to the best of my knowledge this seems to be a hoax, as I dont know any such party, overt or covert, in this country. There seem to be some mentions on the 'net but they all lead nowhere and are very vague and fictitious, some sort of scam if you ask me. The website doesnt seem reliable either. I also read the article/note on the main English Wikipedia about this topic and it seems to be a similar case there too. Could you please guide/advise? I think that you were the last one to check/edit this article here (May 2012) -- what reliable information do we have to believe this ? Thanks Hamneto (talk) 11:50, 25 November 2012 (UTC)Hamneto

Interestingly, the person/user who started this page here User: and also probably on the main English Wikipedia in 2007-2008, is and has been previously traced and brought to my notice recently by User:Eptalon in other vandalism contexts, I believe, also using several other IP addresses. I dont think the user is even in Pakistan. Regards, Hamneto (talk) 11:58, 25 November 2012 (UTC)Hamneto

Hi Hamneto. I would suggest nominating it for deletion. The archive snapshot of their website's home page can be seen here. It looks like the site went down in 2009 and has moved to a free hosting service on - here. However, it doesn't appear to be active any more. It might be the case that this was a very minor political party that never gained notability... If there aren't any reliable sources covering it, then it can be deleted as not notable. Osiris (talk) 12:33, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
Dear Osiris, thanks! I just saw this and yes, I have never ever even heard of this party or its membership at all, in many years of teaching Government and Politics at university level here. Possibly someone started off a website and eventually planned to register a party but never got off the ground. You see with the exception of 2-3 violent/extremist parties/political groupings that have a strong 'presence' despite their illegal status, all other parties big or small in Pakistan ultimately end up being registered with the Election Commission without which they arent allowed to contest elections. I think I shall do as you so rightly suggest, and nominate this for deletion, thanks 12:31, 27 November 2012 (UTC)Hamneto
Hi have nominated for discussion but am not able to list it in the list of articles for deletion' discussion page? How would one do that please? Thanks Hamneto (talk) 12:50, 27 November 2012 (UTC)Hamneto
You just have to add the discussion page's title, in curly brackets {{...}} under "Current requests". I've done it in this edit. Osiris (talk) 13:05, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Xerochrysum bracteatum

Greetings, I created Xerochrysum bracteatum from the English WP article and I have been working on simplifying it. Its a fairly technical topic though so I'm not sure how simplified I can make it since there are a lot of latin and technical terms. Do you think you could take a glance at it and give me some advice? I think we can get this to VG status pretty easy since its featured status on en but I'm not sure again how simplifed it need to be. Thanks in advance.Kumioko (talk) 00:38, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, that's pretty massive. It'll take a lot of work to translate it. Absolutely, though, I'll have a look through it and make some recommendations on the talk page. If you don't mind a bit of collaboration, asking for help at Simple talk usually yields a few willing editors. VGA takes a fair amount of time - mostly because you have to fill in all of the red links. Osiris (talk) 05:47, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Please translate this for Simple English Wikipedia

The 2012 ICC World Twenty20 was the fourth ICC World Twenty20 competition, an international Twenty20 cricket tournament that took place in Sri Lanka from September 18 to October 7, 2012 which was won by the West Indies.The schedule has been posted by International Cricket Council (ICC). This is the first World Twenty20 tournament held in an Asian country, the last three having being held in South Africa, England and the West Indies. Sri Lankan pacer Lasith Malinga has been chosen as the event ambassador of the tournament by ICC.The format has four groups of three teams in a preliminary round. India and England are in the same group and were joined by the runner up of the ICC World Twenty20 Qualifier, Afghanistan. The champions of the ICC World Twenty20 Qualifier, Ireland, are in a group with West Indies and Australia. Sri Lanka, South Africa and Zimbabwe, and Pakistan, New Zealand and Bangladesh are the other two groups.

Match fixtures were announced on 21 September 2011 by ICC. On the same date, the ICC also unveiled the logo of the tournament, named Modern Spin.

Please translate this for simple english wikipedia so that I can make contributions in this wiki. Thank you.--pratyya (talk) 12:42, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

I can certainly help you translate it by making suggestions. I hope you don't want me to translate all the content that you want to add...? I'll read it over tomorrow and give you some suggestions. I'm currently busy reviewing the article in the thread above. Osiris (talk) 13:09, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Italian cuisine

Hey just wanted to post a note about a deletion you made quite awhile ago (June). It was so long ago that you have probably realized since then, but you have to always check the edit history before QDing anything. Looks like someone had just vandalized this article right before you deleted it as G2 when all that needed to happen was a rollback. I restored the edits from before they did that but just thought I would point it out for the future. :) -DJSasso (talk) 19:26, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Oh, wow! I have no idea how that happened. I must not have been very with it that day... How embarrassing. Thanks for catching that! Osiris (talk) 19:45, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
No worries, wouldn't be surprised if I had done it at some point in the past. I only noticed because I deleted a qd at that page again and then was like wait there are a lot of deleted revisions here which doesn't seem right for a couple QDs. -DJSasso (talk) 20:24, 28 November 2012 (UTC)


Would it be okay, if I added like the Authority Control template on here? Which is found on Wikipedia, as a lot of articles would use it. --Clarkcj12 (talk) 16:15, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

That template is part of a special project that links Wikipedia into an overall database system. I don't believe it would work properly here because of the work involved off-wiki to make it work. -DJSasso (talk) 17:24, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
Not only that I think it might be a bit redundant. Since this is still technically a Wikipedia, though be it a simpleer version and that most or all of the articles here would have a corresponding one in EN, I think it would be unnecessary. With that said. I think there should be, in the English WP, a better way to identify on an article that there is a simple variant for those that may not know what simple WP is or why its here. Kumioko (talk) 17:51, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
@ Clarkcj12 -- Does the template simplify the process of posting a VIAF link?

In some articles, I have provided authority control links in the "Other websites" section. For example, at H. Paul Varley, I have added this link:

In the limited context of this article, I guess I don't understand the issues which seem to be implied and rejected in this thread? DJSasso seems to suggest that there are practical problems? Kumioko uses words like "redundant" and "unnecessary" which point to a different line of reasoning.

Can you list some of the reasons why this template might be helpful? --Ansei (talk) 18:44, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

The template simply makes the process of adding the external links faster and easier. I have gone to transwiki that template over. Chenzw  Talk  01:37, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
It also causes data to be added to the repository I believe. This is where the problem is. -DJSasso (talk) 14:30, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Dear Osiris

Thank you for your help.

Kindest Regards,

--Radivojl (talk) 13:37, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

No problem, Radivoj. It was a good article :) Osiris (talk) 21:06, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
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