Wikipedia:Proposed good articles

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Good articles are articles that many people find to be better than other articles. Good articles have criteria/requirements that the article needs to have. Read Wikipedia:Requirements for good articles for information about the criteria.

This page is to talk about articles to see if they meet Good Article criteria. When an article is posted here, it should have the {{pgood}} tag put on it. This will put the article in Category:Proposed good articles.

Articles that are accepted by the community as good articles will have their {{pgood}} tag replaced with {{good}}. They are also shown on Wikipedia:Good articles and are put in Category:Good articles. Articles that are not accepted by the community as good articles have their {{good}} tag removed.

Articles that are above the good article criteria can be nominated to be a "very good article" at Wikipedia:Proposed very good articles.

This tool can be used to find the size of an article.

If you choose to participate in the discussion process for promoting articles, it is very important that you know and understand the criteria for good articles. Discussing an article is a promise to the community that you have read the criteria and the article in question. You should prepare to completely explain the reasons for your comments. This process should not be taken lightly. If there is concern that a user is not taking the process seriously and/or is commenting without reason, they may have their privilege to participate taken away.

ArchivesEdit

Proposals for good articlesEdit

To propose an article for Good article status, just add it to the top of the list using the code below. You may have one nomination open at a time only. Proposals run for three weeks. After this time the article will be either promoted or not promoted depending on the consensus reached in the discussion.

This is not a vote, so please do not use comments such as "Support" or "Oppose" etc. 

=== Article name ===
:{{la|article name}}
State why the article should be a GA. ~~~~


SentōEdit

Sentō (change · talk · history · links · watch · logs · delete)

The article about the most popular bath in Japan. I created the article and Darkfrog24 did the main work. Add authoritative sources, many illustrations, no red-links, a pretty simple language. Frontfrog (talk) 22:05, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

I believe this article meets our criteria. It's about a culturally important thing. It's got a balance of sources, good images, good text, gets to the point. Darkfrog24 (talk) 23:22, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
I ran the text through a reading ease gizmo [1]
  • Flesch Reading Ease score: 75.4 (text scale): fairly easy to read.
  • Gunning Fog: 7.5 (text scale): fairly easy to read.
  • Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level: 6.2: Sixth Grade.
  • The Coleman-Liau Index: 6: Sixth Grade
  • The SMOG Index: 5.9: Sixth Grade
  • Automated Readability Index: 4.8: Grade level: 8-9 yrs. old (Fourth and Fifth graders)
  • Linsear Write Formula : 6.8
Darkfrog24 (talk) 00:08, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

KabukiEdit

Kabuki (change · talk · history · links · watch · logs · delete)

I’ve looked at this article and found it interesting. I meets all of the requirements for a GA, however, at the bottom was a dance navigation box that could be eliminated since it is almost red. It started as a school project in 2009 and has developed since then. PDLTalk to me!OMG, What have I done? 08:39, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

  • Maybe need some more sources but in general it's a wonderful article. Frontfrog (talk) 09:15, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
  • Well, it's a very interesting topic, but I'm not sure why it is being proposed. It is virtually unchanged for the last six months. Is the proposer saying it has been of the standard all along? The whole point of the discussion is to improve the articles. Macdonald-ross (talk) 09:46, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
  • I looked at it today. There's a lot of work needed of the copy-editor type. One example: "Shōwa period" was present without the nihongo flat thing on top. And when the thingy is in, it links OK. Without, it doesn't link. Obviously we can look at it from the point of view of non-Japanese speakers. It uses American English spellings for what is an international topic. Anyway, there's going to be lots of detailed copy-editing needed here, so it awaits someone prepared to do it. It cannot be promoted without that work. Macdonald-ross (talk)
One change needed is to delete the dance box for a theatre box. It should be obvious that kabuki is primarily a form of theatre. In any event, large boxes should be set closed rather than open as they tend to distract the reader. Macdonald-ross (talk) 11:20, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
  • Who will undertake to edit this article if PotsdamLamb left SE Wiki? Frontfrog (talk) 00:47, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
I'm giving the copyediting a go, but the section on commonly used kabuki words has no sources and I can't tell what's going on with it. To be clearer: The information does not make sense, and without a source to click on, I can't fix it. Darkfrog24 (talk) 17:40, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
  • I read it and I think it can be longer (especially in history section). And need to add references. Then the article will be easier to promote. Frontfrog (talk) 11:58, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Forgot to say that I added information in history section and sub-headings. Will be add sources some time later and info. I'm still a little busy. Will be glad if someone help with expansion. Frontfrog (talk) 19:34, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
  • I think it won't work.... Frontfrog (talk) 12:27, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Jacinda ArdernEdit

Jacinda Ardern (change · talk · history · links · watch · logs · delete)

The article has been expanded with more information, proper citations and in a simple language (though some more simpler versions maybe found). Not many women-related articles have been promoted to VGA let alone GA and with the ongoing demotion of articles, it would be nice to have more women articles added to the list. I know that Ardern is an incumbent politician but if you look at my other GA articles that are incumbent politicians (Bernie Sanders, Jeremy Corbyn, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez) I have always updated the articles to make sure they meet GA standards. Please let me know of any feedback so I can fix the article to shape it up to GA standard. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 08:42, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

I would suggest explaining what a by-election is, because I have never heard this term before. Lights and freedom (talk) 20:07, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
  • @Lights and freedom: A "by-election" is the same as a special election in the United States. A by-election is an election held following the resignation of the MP. I've added a sentence that might clarify this in Ardern's article. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 03:39, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
    • I think that makes it better (although now that I looked up the definition I may not be able to judge as accurately). For clarity, on the 2017 by-election page (linked from her article) I replaced a redlink with a link to by-election. I hope that's okay. Lights and freedom (talk) 03:45, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
  • @Lights and freedom: That's perfect thank you! How is the article looking now? --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 04:34, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
  • Support: I looked at the impressive volume and i think that it will be VGA soon. Frontfrog (talk) 20:26, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
  • Support - Seems to be mostly in good shape for GA. Fixing26 (talk) 09:32, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

Anti-tobacco movement in Nazi GermanyEdit

Anti-tobacco movement in Nazi Germany (change · talk · history · links · watch · logs · delete)

Seems well made by looking at the information and coverage. It has been a good article and very good article in other Wikipedias. Darubrub (Let me know) 18:05, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

I would like to see at least a few images in the article. Otherwise it is just a load of text. --Ferien (talk) 18:12, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
The one issue (could just be me) is the amount of red links in the article. It could just be me though. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 14:20, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
I feel like there should be image at the top. A load of text as what Ferien has said. On the other hand I also don't think a large image of Hitler is necessary though. Esperento (talk) 12:46, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
  • Very interesting. The link between lung cancer and tobacco was first proved in Nazi Germany? The sources are not well formed, and readers will need to read text for themselves. I'm not at all sure that the claim in our text is correct, and it is a big claim indeed. Sources, sources, my crown for a source (Richard III). Short of lung cancer, chronic bronchitis and emphysema were being connected to smoking in the 1930s, that is certain. Incidentally, no-one doubts the connection now, as En wiki says, 85% of lung cancer cases are due to "long-term tobacco smoking". The sources are not workable in this format: I want to see the actual text on each occasion, because I don't have easy access to the book. If an issue is critical to the text, we should be able to read it on the page, or at least a precis of it. Macdonald-ross (talk) 18:06, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
    I think the relevant link here is this one (Prof.Dr. A. H.Roffo, Krebserzeugende Tabakwirkung, Monatsschrift für Krebsbekämpfung, J.F:Lehmann's Verlag, München/Berlin, Heft 5, 1940). This seems to be a summary of several studies done at an institute for cancer research in Buenos Aires.--Eptalon (talk) 18:16, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
Wow, what a great source. I had no idea. Thank you. Macdonald-ross (talk) 18:28, 9 May 2021 (UTC) (ex-smoker)
See en:Ángel Roffo, for the scientist...--Eptalon (talk) 19:14, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
  • Our standard accreditation to the the En wiki page is missing. I assume some of our text comes from there. After that is solved, the page is promotable IMO. Macdonald-ross (talk) 11:16, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
    I will begin work on this article tomorrow to fix the errors with the citations and such and search for missing links/invalid links on the Wayback machine and get them up to "snuff". PDLTalk to me!OMG, What have I done? 22:23, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
    I was able to find out what the issue is. I have to decipher all the Harv refs. Basically the error on them is because the citations are not labeled appropriately like one of them has 4 different citations all in the same year so wp doesn’t know which one to pick because they should have been 2001a, 2001b, 2001c, etc. I should be able to fix this the rest of the way tomorrow. PDLTalk to me!OMG, What have I done? 05:42, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
    That was not the error. The error was there was a duplicate reference in the further reading section. -Djsasso (talk) 16:02, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
  • In this state I oppose to this article. Problems with sources, red links in the text. The comments are also not fully corrected. Frontfrog (talk) 17:58, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Proposals closed recentlyEdit

NeptuneEdit

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Result: promoted--Eptalon (talk) 09:50, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
Neptune (change · talk · history · links · watch · logs · delete)

Together, we can make this article good. Frontfrog (talk) 20:49, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

  • Well, I think it is already good. I would think it right to promote once others have had a look. Macdonald-ross (talk) 11:37, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
  • There are many unsourced statements. Just a comment. Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 18:25, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
  • Added missing sources. Maybe need some more. Frontfrog (talk) 13:09, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Yes, you are right. Statements in the intro do not need to be supported providing the equivalent passages in the body of the article are sourced. Many are not, and so this proposal fails at present. Sorry about that, the article is well written, which is something for a science article. Macdonald-ross (talk) 14:50, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
  • Do I need to shorten the introduction? Frontfrog (talk) 11:02, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
  • Well-written, I think this article has great potential to be a GA. John Fibreson (talk) 14:03, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
  • I'm backing onto this one because I noticed the comment that Neptune's orbit moved oddly. That's not the way to put it. Sourced in the En wiki article is a phraseology which says the expected orbit had some perturbations. If we were to say something like "its orbit as seen had some differences from its expected orbit" that would be better. We don't want to move all the way from the science to street language, though we do want to be simpler. Macdonald-ross (talk) 09:56, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
  • Excuse me, where it? Frontfrog (talk) 10:28, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
Third paragraph of intro, at bottom of paragraph. Macdonald-ross (talk) 14:15, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
  • Done. Frontfrog (talk) 16:05, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
  • Good. Now the difficult bit! There are sentences 30, 40 or more words long. We know (from readability research) that very long sentences are difficult for readers, actually impossibly difficult for many. I would look at any sentence with more than 20 words in it. Occasionally, if well expressed, they may be allowed. This is not a personal opinion, but is backed up by plenty of research into reading. Anyhow, that's the next obstacle. Macdonald-ross (talk) 16:30, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
  • I will probably not do this until June. But there don't seem to be a lot of long sentences. Frontfrog (talk) 16:50, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
  • I’ve seen the amount of work you’ve put into it and it is looking good. I’ll have a good thorough reading of it tomorrow and post any thoughts I have for you. I think you are definitely a lot closer now. Make sure there are no citation errors in your reference lists and look at the categories at the bottom to see if it populated into any of the error ones and I can help you fix them. PotsdamLamb (talk) 23:33, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
  • @Macdonald-ross:, I think the sentences look better now. Frontfrog (talk) 17:10, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
  • Can someone write some other comments? I'll try to change it. Frontfrog (talk) 16:03, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
  • So I did a lot of work over the past two days. I got all of the citations in order, a lot of format cleanup and layout, did bare link checks and IGA checks. Also, did some CE and removed the issues causing the article to go into maintenance cats. Just needs a good look over for anything odd. I did point out a discrepancy between the satellite number in the infobox (13) and the list of moons (which is 14). I also asked Froggy to double-check for overlinking and under linking. I did a full format of all the dates to DMY and MOS CS1 and CS2 templates. Based on the information I posted below about readability, I feel it still needs to be brought down simpler. In the beginning, it is good for 7th graders, but then at section 1.2 and beyond, it jumps to 9th graders. So those are my thoughts right now. Thanks, PDLTalk to me!OMG, What have I done? 22:21, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Reading ScaleEdit

1. Flesch Reading Ease score: 64 (text scale) Flesch Reading Ease scored your text: standard/average.
2. Gunning Fog: 10 (text scale) Gunning Fog scored your text: fairly easy to read.
3. Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level: 8 Grade level: Eighth Grade.
4. The Coleman-Liau Index: 8 Grade level: Eighth grade
5. The SMOG Index: 8 Grade level: Eighth grade
6. Automated Readability Index: 7 Grade level: 11-13 yrs. old (Sixth and Seventh graders)
7. Linsear Write Formula: 8 Grade level: Eighth Grade.

Grade Level: 8
 Reading Level: standard/average.
 Age of Reader: 12-14 yrs. old (Seventh and Eighth graders)

Further down the article starting at 'Crediting and Naming', these are the results:

1. Flesch Reading Ease score: 54 (text scale) Flesch Reading Ease scored your text: fairly difficult to read.
2. Gunning Fog: 11 (text scale) Gunning Fog scored your text: hard to read.
3. Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level: 10 Grade level: Tenth Grade.
4. The Coleman-Liau Index: 10 Grade level: Tenth Grade
5. The SMOG Index: 9 Grade Level: Ninth Grade
6. Automated Readability Index: 9 Grade Level: 13-15 yrs. old (Eighth and Ninth graders)
7. Linsear Write Formula: 9 Grade Level: Ninth Grade.
Grade Level: 9
 Reading Level: fairly difficult to read.
 Age of Reader: 13-15 yrs. old (Eighth and Ninth graders)
Thanks, PDLTalk to me!OMG, What have I done? 22:21, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

  • Comment The article is good nomination and I feel working it up to GA level is very possible. The first thing I noticed is that the article needs some sourcing work as there were some sentences that were unsourced. I added citation tags to give you a visual on the areas of improvement. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:17, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
  • I'll do it but I think it is not necessary for good articles to arrange the sources for each sentence.Frontfrog (talk) 20:36, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
  • Fails at the moment because primary claims are not sourced. Examples: "Neptune was discovered by the astronomers Urbain Le Verrier and John Couch Adams. They were both honored for the discovery". Unsourced. It is not per sentence but per claim that sources are needed. Macdonald-ross (talk) 11:23, 14 June 2021 (UTC)
  • I did everything I could: set up the sources, simplified the text. Please, see the changes. Let's bring it to a good state before closing the nomination. I think it's simple.Frontfrog (talk) 12:47, 14 June 2021 (UTC)
  • Does anyone have any complaints about article? Now it's obviously suitable for GA.Frontfrog (talk) 14:30, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
  • Ok, here are my thoughts.
For readability:
  • The lead section reads very nicely. For readability,   it's perfect in my opinion. Reference 12 is used for the first five sentences though, would it be fine for the first four reference twelves to be removed?
  • The history section is simple enough but I find some of the sentences a little lengthy. Some of them could be split up. For example Soon Neptune was internationally agreed among many people and was then the official name for the new planet. could be split into two sentences to read better.
  • The structure section seems good. All those complicated sciency words are linked, so it's fine.
  • I feel the "Neptune's Rings" section is good and simple.
  • Moons section is good. A little simplification towards the end maybe? The final sentence specifically (examine is not in BE 1500, maybe we could use "look at")
  • Observation and Exploration seem good for readability to me.
The sourcing in the article is good. The example Macdonald-ross gave has now been fixed. Every section in the article has more than 5 citations and having a little look at the References section they all seem reliable. And by the looks of it, most of the important terms have been linked.
If we look at the GA criteria
  1. The article must be about a subject that belongs in Wikipedia.   Yes
  2. The article must be fairly complete.   Yes
  3. The article must have gone through a few revisions, possibly by different editors.   Yep. Whilst Frontfrog has done a lot to help this article, TDKR Chicago 101, PotsdamLamb and Eptalon have all contributed too.
  4. The article must be filed in the appropriate category. It must have at least one interwiki link.   Yes and yes
  5. The last few revisions should be minor changes (like spell-checking or link-fixing). My recent changes are minor changes, that could count?
  6. All important terms should be linked and there must not be many red links left.   Not very many red links left. Only in the infobox, in the note and references.
  7. If there are any illustrations, they must be related to the article. They must also be properly labelled.   Yes
  8. There must be no templates pointing to the fact that the article needs improvement.   No templates and doesn't need them
  9. Content that is from books, journal articles or other publications needs to be referenced.   Plenty of referencing
I've never done a GA review before but I'm happy with this and I'm comfortable saying Promote. --Ferien (talk) 20:55, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
  • I've been reading big WP's version, which is deservedly an FA. They've done a wonderful job, and in places it reads better and more accurately than ours does. It would not be wrong for us to promote, because we have improved our page. Still, I thought I'd encourage others to have a look at the En version again. Macdonald-ross (talk) 13:04, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
  • I think I'm completely done to edit (add info about Nereid in "Moons" at the request of Eptalon). Frontfrog (talk) 07:37, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
@Eptalon: What do you think? Frontfrog (talk) 21:17, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
  • Although the article was fully edited only recently, it seems to me that quite a lot of time has passed since its nomination. Forgive me for my impatience. I would be grateful if someone makes a final decision.Frontfrog (talk) 08:31, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Need to close the nomination. Frontfrog (talk) 07:14, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not change it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No more changes should be made to this discussion.

BirdEdit

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Bird (change · talk · history · links · watch · logs · delete)

This article has been improved by a critique by user:PaleoGeekSquared, one of the contributors to the En Featured Article on Bird. I think now our version is worth a GA or pretty close to it. Compared to the En page, I've tried to keep in aspects which interest children whilst keeping the science straight. That has not been easy. Anyway, over to you guys! Macdonald-ross (talk) 08:04, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

  • no in-depth look yet, but can the red-links in the orders/families(?) Infobox be fixed? So that we have at least a stub for each of these. Point of discussion: use common names? (No idea, not my subject area)-Eptalon (talk) 13:01, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
The point here is that infoboxes are not designed for us. They are brought over as is from En wiki (usually by DJS). I don't want to be forced to add content which is not suitable for us just because En wiki has it. I mean, just look at the detail here on this box. It's insane. The page is basically about what is common between all birds.
I would agree that for VGA there should be no red links, but this is just VG. I will do superorders as a gesture of goodwill... Macdonald-ross (talk) 14:46, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
Do we need them all? Yesterday I created a few of these orders, and some were really only made of 2-3 species, endemic to some island. What about having a selection of well-known/big groups in the infobox, and only completing a listing of all (in a section of the article) when we talk about VGA?-Eptalon (talk)
At heart we face the problem that the infoboxes are brought over from En and nowadays cannot be changed. Therefore they are suitable for En wiki, but less suitable for us. If we do things that way they are never going to be suitable for us in the sense of showing red links. The infoboxes should serve our needs, not the other way around. At the same time, I can see why DJS does it this way. Overall, the page has far more than anyone would teach at school and is more than most undergraduates would need. Macdonald-ross (talk) 10:39, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
what about no order/suborders/families (...) in the infobox, and instead have a section? In that section we are free to mention what we like, and if indeed that order with the two species, one on a Pacific island and the other in South American rainforest is important, it can be mentioned. Same with the three-species-in-two-families-on-Madagascar-order. more likely, it will be the swans-geese-ducks, the ravens/corvids, the parrots, emus, penguin, doves, other passerines?-Eptalon (talk)
Yes, I can live with this. Let's pause for a week or so for others to catch up. Macdonald-ross (talk) 12:38, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
Update for those who don't read the TP: I have moved all orders/families to a sectio (which curently only contains these). For all orders/families (except for 3 or so), we do have a very basic stub, so they won't look red. The ones that are currently missing are Caprimulgiformes (which looks quite a big order), Otidiformes (I think 10-20 species), and Cathartiformes (the new-world birds of prey, about 20 species)
  • We have the New world vultures as Cathartidae. Cathartiformes would redirect there. We don't have Caprimulgiformes, which redirects to the clade Strisores on En. They include hummingbirds and swifts, so they are pretty important. We lack Otidiformes only in the sense that we lack bustards, which they are. I'll do that one next. We can call them bustards for the title.
  • I like articles like this but this article is little sourced. Frontfrog (talk) 20:13, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
  • I feel pretty good about promoting this article. Darkfrog24 (talk) 00:47, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
  • ... whereas I'm having a bit of crisis of confidence at the moment... What triggered it was the realisation that the intro has topics with sources, and some without. That happened because some topics were expanded in the main sections, whereas others were not.
Another thing: it's OK to use a term if it has a link to an explanation. No science page can explain everything, and must use proper terms for accuracy. The only issue is whether the term has a link to an explanation on its first appearance. This we decided a long time ago, else all technical pages tended to be written in "baby language". Macdonald-ross (talk) 06:56, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
  • OK, I've made some additions which address the difficulties. I think it may now be worth promotion, remembering that GA is not absolute perfection! Macdonald-ross (talk) 07:48, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
  • It's really good now. But not enough sources again. Maybe I can help you? Frontfrog (talk) 13:47, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
Great, anybody can help. I'm in favour of sources doing something which is needed rather than just pro-forma. A ref in response to "What does that mean?" or "That's surprising, I wonder where he got that idea!" is obviously good. But some articles on En wiki seems to be built on the "pile it all in" principle. They lose their way, and readers who are not academics can get lost. Anyway, I'm going to read through the WP article on David Attenborough's The life of birds because for some reason I've not seen how WP tackled that. Macdonald-ross (talk) 18:23, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
Result: Promoted to GA. --Eptalon (talk) 20:59, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not change it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No more changes should be made to this discussion.

EsperantoEdit

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Esperanto (change · talk · history · links · watch · logs · delete)

The article is simple, well-sourced, doesn't have too many red links and it's nicely written. It's also fairly large by SE Wikipedia standards (at 67k~ bytes). Currently, there aren't any language articles in the GA category, so this would be a nice start. Etoza (?) 16:18, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

  • Obviously, it's not GA. Unsourced statements, Etoza didn't make any changes.Frontfrog (talk) 16:18, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
  • Left some comments on the Talk page. Biggest issues: Intro too short, small sections to be merged, grammar/language sections too specific. Also the last time, there were bigger changes to the article was in 2019. --Eptalon (talk) 10:31, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
  • Not appropriate for promotion. Propagandistic and one-sided on a topic which has always suffered by being able to see only one side of the issue. Also, overtaken by machine translation which copes with all kinds of language, not just European languages. Macdonald-ross (talk) 10:51, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
  • I have used most of the grammar-related stuff to create Esperanto language structure. I have then removed most of it from the main article, and referenced it. The sizer of the main article dropped from about 68k to about 45k. In my opinion, the article needs a lot more work like this. If really wanted, could we ask someone from the Esperanto Wikipedia to help? --Eptalon (talk) 08:56, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
  • Before I read this I had already written on its talk page about how biased the article is. It has no hope of being a good article because its editors are from the start one-eyed. (That means biased in English). Macdonald-ross (talk) 09:26, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
'Result: - The last major edits to the article were in 2019, or so. As is, the article still needs a lot of copyediting (re-structuring, removing bias). This is not a good start for proposing it to be GA. So, I have decided to not promote the article at the current time; please re-submit once the various issues have been addressed.--Eptalon (talk) 09:53, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not change it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No more changes should be made to this discussion.

Tropical Storm Arthur (2020)Edit

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Tropical Storm Arthur (2020) (change · talk · history · links · watch · logs · delete)

The article must be about a subject that belongs in Wikipedia. This article is in the en.wiki and did cause some damage, so it is notable.
The article must be fairly complete. This article is almost 25,000 bytes long.
The article must have gone through a few revisions, possibly by different editors. User:Darkfrog24 helped me simplify the article. If you look, there are also quite a few revisions.
The article must be filed in the appropriate category. It must have at least one interwiki link. This article has multiple interwiki links and is filed in appropriate categories.
The last few revisions should be minor changes (like spell-checking or link-fixing). This is true, the last few revisions were simplification and grammar fixing.
All important terms should be linked and there must not be many red links left. Important terms are linked to their respective articles. To the best of my knowledge, there are no red links.
If there are any illustrations, they must be related to the article. They must also be properly labelled. Of the three illustrations, 2 are pictures of the storm, and one is its path.
There must be no templates pointing to the fact that the article needs improvement. There are no templates, nor does the article need them.
Content that is from books, journal articles or other publications needs to be referenced. There are 38 references.

This article meets all of the criteria and is well and simply written. Please consider it, as I have put a lot of time into improving it and getting it to this wiki's standards. Thank you for your time. CodingCyclone (talk) 23:46, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

"see also" "external link" --> These are signs of copy paste from enwp, please simplify the page completely before nominating, thanks much. Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 16:55, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Thanks, I changed those. If you can, are there any other things I should change? Thanks. 𝙲𝚘𝚍𝚒𝚗𝚐𝙲𝚢𝚌𝚕𝚘𝚗𝚎 ᴛᴀʟᴋ 20:22, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
No. We don't use other articles and outside links. We use related pages and other websites. Please read MOS again in depth, this can't be accepted as normal article, let alone GA. It's not easy, but we are significantly different from enwp, will leave some links on your talk, read them carefully and happy editing first before GA. CM-Public (talk) 21:41, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • There are many examples of links to enwiki within the article. All of these need to be changed to local links, and if none exists then it has to be created. --IWI (talk) 18:49, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Readability scoresEdit

  • The Flesch-Kincaid reading ease score is 71.4 - (70.0+ = Fairly easy to read)
  • The Flesch-Kincaid grade level is 6.6th grade
  • The Gunning Fog index is 7.3 (fairly easy to read)
  • The Coleman-Liau index is 8
  • The SMOG index is 6.9 (Seventh grade)
  • The automated readability index is 5.6 (10-11 year olds; fifth and sixth graders)
  • Overall readability consensus - Grade level: 7; Reading level: fairly easy to read; Reader's age: 11-13 yrs old (Sixth and Seventh graders)

(note: used this website and copied the main text of the article. I ignored the infobox, table of contents, the section and sub-section titles, and the references. I also deleted the artifacts of the references (i.e. [3], [9], [23] etc.))

I read through the article and, while I think it is rather short, it is pretty complete in its information. This is one of those types of articles where there simply is not much information to include. I think the simplification is pretty good considering the topic. I still have mixed feelings about it though. It meets the requirements, but it doesn't really feel like a Good Article to me, and I don't really know why (probably the length). If other users feel that this is a Good Article, you can consider me a supporter, but it may be tough to convince the others. ~Junedude433talk 15:30, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

  • The first paragraph does not run smoothly. Even if prose scores well on readability tests, it still needs to read smoothly. There's not much substance in the article, really. Notable, but not particularly interesting to read. I think it's not going to make it. Macdonald-ross (talk) 11:56, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
  • I think it is time to close this, the last comment was in January. While there were edits to the article since then, I think the time has come to decide. So: what do people think, about the article becoming a good article, in its current state - Note: I expect that this discussion be closed end of this month, with a decision ot either promote or not promote the aticle. --Eptalon (talk) 12:07, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
Support but the article is too short. I agree with Macdonald-ross. But anyway the article is generally good. Frontfrog (talk) 13:42, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
Result: promoted--Eptalon (talk) 20:59, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
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Valéry Giscard d'Estaing ​Edit

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Valéry Giscard d'Estaing (change · talk · history · links · watch · logs · delete)

This article of the former French president has been a project of mine since December of last year. I feel that the article contains sufficient simple information on the subject and is well sourced to be a good contender for GA. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 17:43, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

He died a few months ago, and certainly was a great politician. As to the article: I didn't have an in-depth look yet, but two things (which are hard to put in words): I think reading-ease/fluency is not yet there, in some sections (for example, in the into). The other: There are many sections with just 2-3 sentences (we might want to expand these a little, esp. since many are just a summary of a longer article.--Eptalon (talk) 18:16, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
Much better now, thank you. What do other people think? --Eptalon (talk) 07:28, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
  • Surname of Giscard d'Estaing needs to be consistent throughout.
  • Under Domestic activities the last sentence is incoherent. Language breakdown in a few cases like Personal life, 3rd para.

Regards, Macdonald-ross (talk) 12:15, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Support : the article is well sourced and comprehensive for GA. Frontfrog (talk) 14:59, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
Result: Promoted --Eptalon (talk) 20:59, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
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Least weaselEdit

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Least weasel (change · talk · history · links · watch · logs · delete)

Not many animal articles are rated as Good Articles on Simple Wiki. So I'd thought I would help to make that number to rise. By Simple English standards, the article seems both well-detailed and sourced. It is also rather large as it is more than 11,000 bytes long with very few red links and a few interwiki links. Space chinedu (talk) 12:05, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Looks good to me. Darubrub (Let me know) 15:17, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
  • As a non-native Engish speaker: what probably needs linking and explaining are the specialized words describing young animals: Up until now, to me a "kit" was a collection of components; also seems to be a young animal of different species (or a group of pigeons). Is this the correct term? - Should we perhaps talk about "kitten" (no idea, needs verification by a native English speaker). If used, the same applies for terms describing groups of animals. At the start, a "bitch" was a female dog/canine, and not a derogatory term for a human female.
  • Sections should be longer than 3-4 sentences.
  • Given the length of the article, and the different sections I'd expect an introduction/lede that has 3-4 times the length of what it is now. If I only read the intro, I should get a fairly good understanding of the subject.--Eptalon (talk) 08:18, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
I just fixed some issues with the article, which including some copy editing, replacing Wiktionary links with simple text, linking some complex terms, and simplifying words and sentence structure. Some of the terms I linked are usually simple words, but not when used in a scientific context; they included family and order. I also used the {{convert}} template for measurements. --Auntof6 (talk) 08:41, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
Also, I have a question. The article said the least weasel was "[[Extinction|extinct]] from [[New York City|New York]]". Which is it, New York (the state) or New York City? I changed it to New York City since that's what it linked to, but it's not usual to say an animal is extinct in a city. --Auntof6 (talk) 08:46, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
Do we need the equivalent of en:Kit (a disambiguation page), or should that content be linked to Wiktionary? --Eptalon (talk) 08:50, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
In this case, I think we should just say "the young weasels" or "the baby weasels". The enwiki dab page just links to the main general articles on the animals. --Auntof6 (talk) 09:38, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
  • The sort of thing I hate about this aspect of our wiki is when an editor follows the original so closely that they include stuff which is just not appropriate for our kind of customer. It's a sign that the proposer just copied blindly what was there with superficial changes to wording. Here's what I mean:
"There are many ectoparasites that infect weasels [So far, so good...]. Some of them are the louse Trichodectes mustelae and the mites Demodex and Psoregates mustela. It may get fleas from the nests and burrows of its prey. Fleas known to infest weasels include Ctenophthalmus bisoctodentatus Palaeopsylla m., P. s. soricis, Nosopsyllus fasciatus and Dasypsyllus gallinulae.[8] Least weasels are often infected with the nematode Skrjabingylus nasicola".
Who on Earth except a specialist knows what these parasites are? In fact all mammals (actually all animals in the wild) have plenty of parasites. No-one but a specialist would know what the names refer to, and the senseless listing of technical details is exactly what we should not do on this wiki. The text is far too close a copy of the original. I don't mean to discourage, but just ask yourself, how you would have felt on the receiving end if you were sitting in a classroom and a teacher had said or written that. Macdonald-ross (talk) 09:21, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
I have rewritten the paragraph, no species are mentioned anymore. I would like to point out though that it is a bit on the short side now....--Eptalon (talk) 19:27, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
  •   Support. This is a high quality, interesting, and simple article. Lights and freedom (talk) 19:37, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
  • Does not qualify at present because it does not acknowledge on its talk page its basis as being the En article. This objection must be corrected before promotion. Macdonald-ross (talk) 10:42, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
    Attribution addressed. --Eptalon (talk) 20:58, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
Result: Promoted--Eptalon (talk) 20:58, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
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SingaporeEdit

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Singapore (change · talk · history · links · watch · logs · delete)

Not many country articles are rated as GAs on the Simple Wiki, so I'd thought I would help grow it. Singapore is already a good article on the regular English wiki. By Simple English standards, the article seems both well-detailed and sourced. Bishibitsu (talk) 19:27, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Other than the redlinks, looks good to me. Darubrub (Let me know) 13:35, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
Pretty good article... The redlinks shouldn't take too long to deal with. --Ferien (talk) 21:00, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
I like the article, it helps to garner a summarized understanding of Singapore without taking too long to read as well as the need to know much vocabulary. I support its inclusion as a GA. Esperento (talk) 12:46, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
Support - The article is well detailed. --Hulged ⟨talk⟩ 16:24, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
Support from me. It's definitely GA material. It is well written and referenced nicely. John Fibreson (talk) 14:03, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
Not yet. Introduction is good, but the section 1919 to 1940 is very poor at present. You really need to read the corresponding section "British colonisation" in the En wiki page, and then do justice to this, the most critical stage in Singapore's growth. It has a main article which also needs reading. Very interesting Macdonald-ross (talk) 17:10, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
Let me see what I can do. Bishibitsu (talk) 11:47, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Addressed all the redlinks and expanded the history section from 1819 to 1942. Let me know if there's any more questions. Bishibitsu (talk) 17:24, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
  Oppose Per the issues Macdonald-ross brought up --Tsugaru Let's Talk! :) 🍁 20:31, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
  • I have read the additions prompted by my above critique. They do seem to meet my earlier objection. So, I think the article may now be promoted. Macdonald-ross (talk) 11:02, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Article well written and sourced very well. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 11:05, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
Result: promoted--Eptalon (talk) 21:00, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
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Logic gateEdit

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Logic gate (change · talk · history · links · watch · logs · delete)

Very simple compared to the English ver and gets the job done. Has pictures, captions, tables, et.c to get the point across better. Paradox Marvin (talk) 01:04, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

  • No, just no. This article is way too short, and it lacks a lot of information. It doesn't really explain what they are or what their uses are. Since you want to compare it to the standard English Wikipedia's version, that version has several more sections that describe the history and development, applications, similar tools, etc. that this version does not. This is a hard no for me. ~Junedude433talk 15:16, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose: Article not fleshed-out and does not contain a single source. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 18:43, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
  • Yeah, I think this is too far from GA status to be considered here. For one, it has no sources, which means it could not be made a GA in anything like the current state. --IWI (talk) 18:47, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
  •  (change conflict)    Comment - A good article is supposed to be some of our better-best work, not just something that just "gets the job done". Every article should "get the job done", but good articles need to do more than that. And as IWI states, there aren't even any sources, so it's hardly job done. Just a comment. --Belwine • 💬 • 📜 18:55, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
  • NO! Obvious. Macdonald-ross (talk) 11:38, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
  •   Comment Yeah, an article with no sources has no shot at GA. Darubrub (Let me know) 18:25, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
  •   Comment Even if it is for GA, I would have expected that there article mention ,that there are currently at least three different notations for these gates (DIN 49700, ANSI and IEC/ANSI, While two of them look "similar", the third one does not (IEC/ANSI is noticeably different). Also the ones listed are just examples; note that Peirce showed that with NAND (or NOR) gates it is possible to design circuits with one type/kind of gate alone. Also, I'd expect De Morgan's laws to be mentioned (they are commonly used to transform expressions). This article currently is a listing of a few "common" logic gates; it is very far from what I'd expect a GA-level article to be. --Eptalon (talk) 17:20, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
Definitely does not qualify as a GA. Esperento (talk) 12:46, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
Oppose - No sources, how can it be promotes to GA. --Hulged ⟨talk⟩ 16:28, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

  Not done This quite clearly falls way short. Macdonald-ross (talk) 07:46, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

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Black holeEdit

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Black hole (change · talk · history · links · watch · logs · delete)

Pretty obviously a good article on a difficult science topic. Also, it's in an area where we have far too few GAs. Macdonald-ross (talk) 06:42, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

  • I think its a good, to very good start; I added a section on properties of black holes, all at the end. We need to look at the sectioning a little (for example 'Primordial black holes' is a candidate to be merged somethere, it's just a sentence). Hinging on the fact that black holes have only three measurable properties, it would perhaps be good to mention Karl Schwarzschild, who also did some pioneering work on black holes (shortly before his death, he died in 1916, after being wounded in the first world war, 2 months after returning from the front, of an autoimmune disease of the skin). Anyway, good start, may need a little cleanup work though.--Eptalon (talk) 22:33, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Good start for sure and I would love this article to be promoted to GA however there are some sections of the article that are unsourced. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 05:41, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • I have to ask: do others find the moving image as irritating as I do? Macdonald-ross (talk) 11:34, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Should the blackhole classification by Schwartzchild radius be included? (see EnWP article) It does make sense of the intuitively strange feature that small black holes are much denser than large black holes, to the extent that really large one are less dense than main sequence stars... Macdonald-ross (talk) 11:56, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
    Adding the pieces of information (5 classes, AFAIK) would certainly be interesting (And the section 'Supermassive black holes' would be demoted one or two levels, as they are one of the five). I don't know where the classification is from, to me it looks arbitrary. A black hold with the mass of the moon has a Schwarzsxchild radius of about 1/10th of a millimetre? (Called 'Micro black hole')? I think this depends whether scientists agree on these values/names/definitions, and wether we findf a publication that mentions them. If we haven't already, taking and simplifying the 'Open questions' from EnWP would probably also make sense...--Eptalon (talk) 14:53, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
I'm not sure my physics is up to editing this article in detail. I know it's not! I proposed the page for GA, not because I had much to do with it, but simply because I thought it merited the promotion as it was (barring any simple changes). If that's not so then we're going to have difficulty in promoting any articles on physics. The thought occurs to me that it might be sensible to ask one or two people from En wiki to help us here. I really don't want us to get into the position where only, say, biographies of politicians are going to be promoted. Macdonald-ross (talk) 11:53, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
I am not a physicist either. I don't think the idea of the project is that only specialists can contribute. Especially with GA-level, this shouldn't be an issue (at VGA-level we could discuss about completeness). Would leaving out the classification (as there are doubts) allow us to promote, provided all other issues are taken care of?--Eptalon (talk) 12:05, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
I'm going to add sources to sections which at present have none. I think the general text is good for GA. Macdonald-ross (talk) 13:46, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
Now all main sections have sources, but not all paragraphs. Can editors look at the text to see if any statements need more support. Macdonald-ross (talk) 14:35, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
  • It's time for you guys to make a decision on this one. It's all very well demoting articles, but our record in promoting articles is weak. We have as a wiki gone from one extreme to the other. If we want to have the system at all, then someone has to take decisions. Obviously as a content-writer I can't be the one to take decisions here. It should not be so hard to make GA, and many good science articles are waiting for attention! Macdonald-ross (talk) 06:41, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
    FOr me, the verdict is clear: support promotion to GA. Things like completeness are not relevant at GA level; also we can't expect editors to be experts in the fields they wrrite articles on. --Eptalon (talk) 07:34, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
  • I am not an expert on the topic either, but the whole point of the thing is for the non-experts on the field to be able to understand the content. And after reading most parts of the article, I think the simplification done here is excellent. If compared to enwiki, there is a lot missing, but what I find here is sufficient for the general audience. I support promoting the page.-BRP ever 07:55, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
Result: promoted to Good aricle - In my opinion has the qualities we expect of a good article; if any details remain, they can still be addressed...--Eptalon (talk) 07:47, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
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OxygenEdit

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Oxygen (change · talk · history · links · watch · logs · delete)

I nominated this article a while back. I have cleared the non-person red links and would be open for ideas on how to improve it further. IWI (chat) 20:44, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

If possible, get rid of the red-links in the footnotes/citations? - There's generally no need to link authors, journals or publishers...--Eptalon (talk) 20:51, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
Will do. IWI (chat) 21:02, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
Apart from two that I can't change, I have done it. Is there anything further that can be done. IWI (chat) 21:09, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
Uses: Metallurgy: Making steel, welding, cleaning wastewater, Zinc–air battery; food additive E948, Carbon dioxide which is added to almost every drink? --Eptalon (talk) 21:20, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
Yes the uses could be added to. I will add your points thank you. IWI (chat) 21:30, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
I have added an "industrial" section to the uses and also created a "compound" section. The enwiki doesn't mention E948 so I've left that out. I breifly mentioned CO2 being used in drinks, but the uses section is really for how oxygen is used on its own. Thoughts? IWI (chat) 14:58, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
You said that you cleared all of the non-person red links, but I found plenty, particularly in the infobox. I just created pages for two of them: the p-block and the element category. Please try to create pages (they can even be stubs!) for all of the red links. ~Junedude433talk 15:40, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
@Junedude433: The infobox is not technically the article. In the new sections that I created after that comment there are some red links that need clearing. IWI (chat) 15:43, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
@ImprovedWikiImprovment: Regardless, I don't think an article should be a GA unless all red links are gone. I know that it might not technically be part of the criteria, but unofficially, it should be. ~Junedude433talk 15:48, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
@Junedude433: You are right, I will clear them. IWI (chat) 22:25, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
Thank you TDKR Chicago 101; can you see any possible improvements? IWI (chat) 20:06, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
  • You're all nowhere with this one because you haven't asked (let alone answered) the difficult questions. Look at reference #2: what a joke! You haven't asked or answered why the Earth has so much oxygen. Ask yourself where it comes from. Oxygen is very reactive. Why doesn't it just react with everything else and disappear as a gas? (It's all here on this wiki, but not on this page). What does it benefit us to eliminate red links and leave all the real issues not just unanswered, but unasked? (though I would accept that much so-called science taught at school level is similarly defective). Macdonald-ross (talk) 15:37, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
True, that reference is not good. It looks like this was added recently by another user. I thank you for pointing this out. I will remove the reference. As nobody had pointed out that this was something that should have been included, I hadn’t considered adding it. More should definitley be said about why the Earth has so much oxygen. I wrote what is currently on the page using much of what is on the enwiki article, and thus some information is on subpages over there. IWI (chat) 15:48, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘
 This proposal appears to have lost traction, pinging the editors who have been involved in this: ImprovedWikiImprovment, Eptalon, Junedude433, TDKR Chicago 101, Macdonald-ross. Chenzw  Talk  15:20, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

@ImprovedWikiImprovment:Yes, I'm sorry about the bad reference. I wouldn't normally leave any reference in the lead, but the problem was that my edit was contradicting the previous "consensus" by changing "all life" to "most life". Then I couldn't find where respiration was covered later in the main body of the article, so I popped over to anaerobic respiration for a reference from there but the only reference was a broken link... I guess I just gave up at that point and left the problem for the next day (which never came). I apologise for the inconvenience.
"Respiration" occurs seven times in the article and "breath-" also occurs seven times, so I think that a section covering respiration is needed (enwiki has too much on this subject, in my view, but it is hard to know where to draw the line). Full disclosure: checking back through the revisions, it appears I was the one who introduced the erroneous "all life" in the first place, when I changed it from "animal life"... back when the article was proposed, it said "most life", as it does now (and I'm not sure that's correct, thinking about fermentation). Anyway, if someone who understands biology could summarise the essentials in the body of the article, the lead should take care of itself.--GrounderUK (talk) 01:08, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
  • I'm troubled by the balance between the intro and the body of this page. The intro is long and sources are only placed in the body of the article. That is OK, so long as the body carries the weight adequately. However, there is still an obvious looseness each time the unusual condition of the Earth is mentioned. Oxygen is a very unusual constituent of a planetary atmosphere, and I think it needs to be asked and explained what it's doing there. Children take it for granted, but a scientist cannot. The sources are all on this wiki, but not in the intro, and only partly on this page. I mean, Venus has a CO2 atmosphere, doesn't it? One thing I can suggest is the page Great Oxygenation Event, which deals with the arrival of mass oxygen in the Earth's atmosphere. Incidentally, I notice we don't have a simple category called "oxygen", nor one called "carbon dioxide". We should. Macdonald-ross (talk) 07:47, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
On this topic, see Air as well as Great Oxygenation Event. Macdonald-ross (talk) 09:23, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
And Atmosphere of Earth#History of Earth's atmosphere. Macdonald-ross (talk) 11:19, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
  • To find a better balance, we should aim for at least 4-5 sentences per section/heading. Look at the EnWP article (which is a featured article), to get some ideas of what to take. --Eptalon (talk) 10:07, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
    I think this one's a fail. I can see too many sentences which are overlong and unclear. It was pretty ambitious to propose it, but, being sort of acceptable is not enough. Sorry. Macdonald-ross (talk) 13:46, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
    Fair enough. Thanks for the feedback. :) --IWI (talk) 18:17, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Not promoted The proposal has lost traction again, and even though it seems like a fair amount of work has been done on the page, there is no consensus to promote it as of yet. So, if anyone still thinks the article should be promoted, a new discussion can be started using this one as a basis.-BRP ever 07:24, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

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Alexandria Ocasio-CortezEdit

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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (change · talk · history · links · watch · logs · delete)

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez became an unexpected political celebrity following her upset victory back in the 2018 midterm primary. She has since then been a very vocal U.S. Congresswoman calling for a Green New Deal and reforming America's immigration laws. From bartender to the youngest woman ever elected to Congress her political career has been unorthodox, but accomplishing nonetheless. The article has been expanded with no redlinks and good amount of sourcing with sufficient simplification. As a result, I feel that with the article's good shape it would be an excellent addition to our community's Good Articles. Of course some work will be needed but as my Reagan, Sanders, Corbyn and Rogers nominations went, I work best when given specific areas where improvement is needed. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 05:57, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Fair enough, thanks for this fine piece of work. I support the passing of GA. Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 18:09, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Bit of work to do on this one. Have added some comments on the talk page. Will add more later this week.Peterdownunder (talk) 00:08, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
I tentatively support this one when it becomes a bit more simplified. Everything else checks out pretty well.~Junedude433talk 02:56, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
  • @Junedude433: Any specific areas that needs simplification? This will help me find target regions that need work --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 23:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
I've noticed the sections Early Life and Political Views need the most simplification but I'm not at all skilled with that thing but it's good to have a shot Dibbydib (talk) 10:38, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
@Dibbydib:: Thank you for your input and I'll definitely take a look! What areas did you find specifically that looked off or not simplified? --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 10:57, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
  • I have only given a quick look, and I think it is in generally good shape. One of the issues I found (which is not in the criteria) is the following: When using references don't link authors or publishers. It only adds a red link, and the need to create an article, when this ever goes to VGA status. As to newspapers: we do have an international readership, so except perhaps for the top 5 to top 10 US newspapers (by circulation), the reader won't recognise the reference. The added information value is very small. As I don't know the US media market, I can't tell you which of the links to keep, and which ones to remove. What I am trying to say is: It is very likely that a link to an author or publisher only generates extra work, and adds little to no information.--Eptalon (talk) 09:49, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
  • This still needs quite a bit of simplification. Here is one example of idiomatic language that loses meaning without context, "She said that 80% of her campaign worked out of a paper grocery bag hidden behind the eatery's bar." In the original article that this is pulled from, there is more to explain what this means. Here it is complex and unclear what exactly "the campaign" means or what it means to work out of a paper bag. --Gotanda (talk) 22:24, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
  • @Gotanda: I gave the sentence some context and reworded it. Thank you for this specific example. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 05:45, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
That doesn't really address the idiomatic uses and is still unclear. In addition, now it is presented as a quote but this is not a direct quote from the cited article. There is still lots of low frequency vocabulary used that needs to be simplified. Fart, mockery, sham, clout, sophomore, ethic, stunt, premiere, and more. Many of these come in from quotes. A vocabulary profiler such as [2] can help you identify all of the low frequency words that need simplification.
Paraphrasing rather than quoting is more work, but is simpler. for example:
  • policies that "...most closely resemble what we see in the United Kingdom, in Norway, in Finland, in Sweden."
  • policies that are like those in the United Kingdom, Norway, Finland, and Sweden --Gotanda (talk) 22:30, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
  • @Gotanda: Ah I see, thank you for the specific example and I'll start fixing the article. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 23:01, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
  • @Gotanda: Made a few adjustments now. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 11:18, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
  • @TDKR Chicago 101: Please see my recent edits. Some of your recent changes drastically change the meaning when you are trying to simplify. I may get to your other recent edits, but please review them again yourself. --Gotanda (talk) 01:50, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
  • @TDKR Chicago 101: - I am currently reviewing the article. Keep an eye on the article's talk page. --Yottie =talk= 11:29, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
  • @TDKR Chicago 101: Normally, I prefer that citations are not made in the introduction, but only in the body of the article, however the article looks good. Good job. ✍️A.WagnerC (talk) 19:15, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
  • I think it's been simplified enough for it to be a GA. I can support it as long as you continue to update it appropriately. This is about a living member of Congress, after all. However, based on your other articles, I don't really have any doubts that you will continue to update it. Good job! ~Junedude433talk 00:47, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Thank you @Junedude433: I always keep tabs on Corbyn, Sanders and now AOC. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 06:51, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
I don't think this is ready because it could be much simpler and I have questions about the editing of passages. The very first concern I raised has not been addressed. If anything the changes made it less accurate. The expressive and idiomatic passage about operating out of a paper bag hasn't been simplified. The changes have made the quote from the article inaccurate. See the ref, "“For 80 percent of this campaign, I operated out of a paper grocery bag hidden behind that bar.”" See the article, ""80% of her campaign worked out of a paper grocery bag hidden behind the eatery's bar"". Quotes must be exact. This is changed and actually changes the meaning significantly. The article relies too much on quotes. This over-reliance makes it more complex and the quotes need checking to see if others have been edited from the originals as well.
The other concern I have is just general simplification. A few examples, but there are many more:
  • "Their plan called for adding the "social cost of carbon" that was part of the Obama administration's plans to fix climate change." What is the 'called for' here? "Social cost of carbon" is not explained at all.
  • "In May 2020, Ocasio-Cortez was picked by then-presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden to lead his climate task force to help his campaign talk about climate change related problems and solutions." Long, passive, and includes complex vocabulary. Yes, presumptive is linked but it isn't necessary; expected works. But this is a typical example of what needs work. Every long sentence needs to be broken down.
  • "On August 10, it was confirmed that she would speak at the convention on the second day on August 18." Vague passive. Who confirmed? AAA announced that AOC would ....
  • "She said that sees social media as a "public health risk."" Idiomatic use of sees for thinks.
  • Many more throughout. --Gotanda (talk) 01:07, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • @Gotanda: I shortened some sentences and addressed the issues above. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 06:38, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
TDKR Chicago, I can see that you care about this subject and are highly motivated to get this promoted, but you have not fully addressed the issues and in some cases recent edits continue to make the article less accurate by changing the meaning when simplifying. At a rough count (ctrl-f for quotation marks) there are about 50 quoted words or passages. Sometimes, like emphasizing the nickname Sandy, that is fine and good. But the continuous use of quotes is not very encyclopedic in approach. Simple summaries are much better. Next, some of the new changes are just inaccurate. In trying to fix the bag passage, you now have her taking buttons out of a bag. That is not in the cited article. Why is this bag so important? Next, you simplified social cost of carbon to an increase price for carbon usage, but that is not what SCC is. SCC is "The social cost of carbon (SCC) is an estimate, in dollars, of the economic damages that would result from emitting one additional ton of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. The SCC puts the effects of climate change into economic terms to help policymakers and other decisionmakers understand the economic impacts of decisions that would increase or decrease emissions." It is used to make investment decisions. It is not a carbon tax or price increase. Previously you reversed the meaning of deficit spending. The repeated errors and changes in simplification make me question the accuracy of the rest of the article. I think this will need a thorough and careful check before any promotion. --Gotanda (talk) 02:54, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
@Gotanda: No no I am trying like with my other noms its just that your comments confuse me, sometimes the quotations are okay but then its not okay to have quotations? I did, and you can compare to older versions of the article, that I have shortened sentences per your comments. With the quote with the bag and the campaign has been an issue before where I've had comments to either keep it as it is, then simplify quote, then reword it and then to just remove the quotations altogether. If quotations are an issue I need specific examples (as I work best with specifics as I accomplished with Reagan, Sanders, Corbyn and Rogers). I'm pretty proud for the Sandy sentence as that was another issue raised. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 17:46, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
The bag passage. First the quote was long and idiomatic and therefore complex. Then, you tried to simplify it, but you changed the words and the meaning while still keeping it in quotation marks. That is not how quotations work. They must be word for word the same. And, as you changed it several times you have changed the meaning. No buttons are mentioned in the cited article. Removed for now. What remains is Her campaign was small. If you think it is important to say that she operated her campaign from a bar where she worked, write that.
ls I wrote above, the one word like AOC, Sandy, or socialism are fine. I gave you a specific example above. I can give you more, but really most of them. But when paraphrasing it is important not to change the meaning.
"putting their whole lives and everything that they had on the line for the protection of their community" (Putting X on the line id
"You can't really beat big money with more money. You have to beat them with a totally different game." Again, "big money" is short for money in politics. Game is metaphorical. Simplify in a paraphrase.
Then, a whole string of quotes about her win. I guess that is to show how surprised people were. Just explain that. One is definitely not necessary. Time called her victory "the biggest upset of the 2018 elections so far". It is 2020, quoting something so far is not needed that far in the past.
There was a longer quote which now just ends in "media failure". JUst paraphrase the whole thin and use simple active verbs. Also, commentator is not so simple. Many commentators saw how no one paid attention to her primary campaign and called it a "media failure."' Suggest: Many writers said that the news media failed because it did not pay attention to her campaign.
This sentence has gotten a bit mangled by trying to simplify within quotes rather than paraphrasing the whole thing. She began her career with a popular social media, following "as much social media [followers] as her fellow [newly elected] Democrats [put together]." Your passage now has AOC following many people, but that is not what the article says. Suggest going to the report cited by Axios and just using the numbers. AOC had X. The 60 other new members of congress had Y total.
I don't have time to listen to a podcast to verify the next one about public health risk. Seems to again be metaphorical. Was she talking about literal public health or the condition of discourse in the country. Suggest She believes that social media is a very bad for politics. but not sure if that is what she said or meant. A text based ref would be easier to check.
That is a whole string of them. But there are many more. --22:45, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
So, to summarise the above (which I did not write): the idiomatic use of language may mean this is not simple English. Why? Because it requires a fairly deep understanding of phrases which are not to be taken [=understood] at face value. You see in this apparently simple sentence how the work "taken" is not simple. That runs through and through this article. I think there is no problem with occasional metaphorical phrases, but this article is absolutely full of them. Macdonald-ross (talk) 11:19, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
  • I've been struggling to find a way of describing what is wrong with her language. In principle, it is good to have quotations. Yet I'm sure we are right to think they would not be understood by a learner of the English language. What she has done is to phrase everything so as to manipulate the listener by using key emotive terms instead of basic-meaning terms. This is typical of many politicians on the campaign trail, but her case is really extreme. More neutral-worded assessments from independent neutral sources would help, though I can well believe they are hard to find in this case. Macdonald-ross (talk) 09:02, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
Incidentally (but very notably), the case against Donald Trump rests on the use of figurative (or really intended) language. We can expect this issue to be prominent in the impeachment trial. Hitler is a good example of really intended future actions being read as metaphorical. Stalin's refusal to believe reports of German preparations for the invasion of the Soviet Union is an example of misreading even practical preparations. Macdonald-ross (talk) 07:12, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
@Macdonald-ross: So to simplify this feedback (the first one): there's some rephrasing to be done on her quotes. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 07:34, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
I think the content is good, and improved. I am concerned with the figurative use of language only because it is so often misread. Many Germans were shocked to find Hitler actually meant what he said. They thought he was speaking figuratively! In the last resort our pages are meant to be literally true. We have to be in favour of literal meaning because it is the primary use of language, and what children learn first. I think we may have not said this explicitly when we were discussing Simple English some years ago. Macdonald-ross (talk) 08:20, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
A quick check shows our criteria pages for GA and VGA do not mention this (above) issue. They should, I think. But as they stand, you can reasonably claim that they make the grade. For me, personally, I think we do need to say something like "metaphorical meanings are explained in simple terms" or some such. And we need to say it in the rules for GA and VGA. In conversation even a silence can be very meaningful! And not saying things in a treaty has the consequence that parties to the treaty believe that which is not prohibited is allowed. Macdonald-ross (talk) 08:35, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
If we are using direct quotes we should not be rephrasing at all. If we are already paraphrasing then yes, use simple language when you are paraphrasing, but even here on Simple we are not supposed to alter direct quotes. It is literally the reason Simple Wikiquote got shutdown. -Djsasso (talk) 12:20, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
@Djsasso: & @Macdonald-ross: So I should remove direct quotes since they are constantly in need or paraphrasing or? Also aside from the quotation, is the article good? --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 12:02, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
No need to remove them as direct quotes are fine. I might just be careful when I use them if it were me. Consider if they are necessary or just fluff. For example if a paragraph is talking specifically about something a person said that caused some sort of notable reaction then I would use the direct quote as it is important for context. If you are using it just to describe something they generally say, I would probably just paraphrase instead of a direct quote and then put a reference to an article with a quote that lines up with what you are claiming in your paraphrase. -Djsasso (talk) 12:07, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

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   Comment Maybe I'm being to picky, but there are some, but not a lot of red-links in the reference list for the article. But this is a GA and not a VGA Candidate, so I think it can pass, as there is not many red-links there --Tsugaru Let's Talk! :) 🍁 23:53, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Promoted - While there may still be some issues with the article, it is generally in a good shape, so I have taken the liberty to promote it to good article. Remember: there's always room for improvement, and in my opinion, the article meets the criteria--Eptalon (talk) 12:19, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not change it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No more changes should be made to this discussion.

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