Wikipedia:Simple talk

Simple talk
	This is the place to ask any questions you have about the Simple English Wikipedia. Any general discussions or anything of community interest is also appropriate here. You might also find an answer on Wikipedia:Useful, a listing of helpful pages. You may reply to any section below by clicking the "change this page" link, or add a new discussion section to this page. Please sign and date your post (by typing ~~~~). Please add new topics to the bottom of this page. Please note that old discussions on this page are archived periodically. If you do not find a discussion here, please look in the archives. Note that you should not change the archives, so if something that has been archived needs discussing, please start a new discussion on this page. Some of the language used on this page can be complicated. This is because it is used by editors to talk to one another, so sometimes we forget. Please leave us a note if you are finding what we are saying too hard to read.
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Presentation on SEWP at the Korea TESOL Conference and what I learned

Last weekend I gave a presentation on SEWP for educators at the KOTESOL Conference in Seoul. It was a two-hour poster presentation and quite a few English as a second or foreign language teachers stopped by to learn about Simple. As expected, most of them were unaware of SEWP. Many of them seemed to become interested. More importantly, none of teachers who had used Simple had ever edited. Some were, as usual, still unclear that really anyone could edit. More importantly, several of those who were aware of Simple thought it was part of the main English Wikipedia. The potential obstacles to editing on EnWP are pretty well-known, so this put people off. When I made clear that Simple was separate and had its own smaller group of welcoming admins and editors they seemed much more interested. Also, they had not noticed the Schools Gateway. Maybe that can be more prominent somehow? I wonder if there is a way to make it clear that this wikipedia is not run by EnWP? (If anyone thinks that would be helpful.) I can send or link to the abstract, but I thought self-linking here was not the way to go. Thanks, --Gotanda (talk) 02:36, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

• What is Schools Gateway? Kdammers (talk) 15:58, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

  Thank you for making my point so perfectly. It is linked in the box at the top center of the Main Page. But, it does not get noticed. Perhaps people are more intent on the search box and miss the other text in that block. --Gotanda (talk) 08:29, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

  Yes, the schools gateway page should be made more prominent. I have seen student editors making drafts on the article space when they are clearly not ready. Right now, it's one of the top links of the main page. On average it receives 21 views per day.

  A technical solution would be to place an editnotice for anonymous users who are editing through a school IP, but that might require blocking the school IP ranges. — *Fehufangą ♮ ✉ Talk page 02:37, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

  It may need some visual separation. There is just a lot of text under the search box. Using the small chalkboard from inside the gateway in between to separate "How to write Simple English pages · Useful pages · Simple talk · Categories · Help" and "Schools Gateway (for users who want to make changes from a school)"

  Also, suggest a small edit:

  Schools Gateway (for users who want to make changes from a school)

  Schools Gateway (for students and teachers who want to make changes from a school)

  Thanks, --Gotanda (talk) 07:21, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Neeeeeeat. Darkfrog24 (talk) 01:40, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Gotanda, this is really interesting! Just curious, would you be interested in writing a short post on Diff about your experience presenting about SWEP, and the conference? Vermont 🐿️ (talk) 01:40, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion, @Vermont! Need to find a little time, but yes. --Gotanda (talk) 02:08, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

New good article: Megadeth

Hello all, I have just promoted Megadeth to Good article. Congratzulations to everyone who contributed. There are no more good articles in the queue... Eptalon (talk) 09:45, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

\m/ \m/ --Gotanda (talk) 09:01, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello

I am new to the Simple English Wikipedia. I come from the English Wikipedia, and I have a few questions about this site. Is this the right place to ask? QuicoleJR (talk) 23:00, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@QuicoleJR Welcome! You can ask your questions here. — *Fehufangą ♮ ✉ Talk page 23:09, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Ok. Most of them will be about similarities to the English Wikipedia.

1. Is there a system for merging articles?

2. How does the Good Article and Selected Article system work here?

3. Are there WikiProjects?

QuicoleJR (talk) 23:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@QuicoleJR

1. articles can be merged as a result of a requests for deletion (the Simple English Wikipedia's equivalent of the English Wikipedia's deletion venues) or through a talk page discussion
2. Articles are not promoted to GAs through a single-reviewer review process. Instead, the articles are discussed and voted on at WP:GA. Featured articles are called very good articles (WP:VGA). Though VGAs are featured on the main page, like the English Wikipedia, there is no "Today's VGA".
3. Not in an "official" capacity. The Simple English Wikipedia does not use WikiProject talk banners.

— *Fehufangą ♮ ✉ Talk page 23:32, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Got it. Thanks! QuicoleJR (talk) 23:33, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

I have another question.

4. How does notability work here? It seems to me that anything with an article on the English Wikipedia is fair game, even if the Simple English article has no sources. Is this true?

QuicoleJR (talk) 23:47, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@Fehufanga: Sorry, but two more questions:

5. How do pages get patrolled?

6. How do you add other languages to the "Languages" tab?

QuicoleJR (talk) 00:09, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

@QuicoleJR

5. Patrollers patrol and mark pages as patrolled. There's no draft namespace or an AFC system here. IPs are not restricted from creating articles either. The patroller right is granted to those who have experience patrolling pages and have created a decent amount of articles that don't need to be patrolled.

6. If you are using the old vector skin, this can be done with the "Add Links" link. Once you click it, enter the short name of another Wikipedia where the article exists. Usually this will be enwiki for the English Wikipedia. Then, enter the article's title in that Wikipedia. If you are using the new vector skin, this link is called "add interlanguage links", and is somewhere on the right. — *Fehufangą ♮ ✉ Talk page 00:24, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

About that "add interlanguage links" thing: it requires a Wikidata page. How do I attach a Wikidata page to an article? QuicoleJR (talk) 00:29, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

@QuicoleJR Does a matching article exist on another Wikipedia? For example, en:Johann Sebastian Bach is matched with simple:Johann Sebastian Bach. If not, you may have to create a new Wikidata item. — *Fehufangą ♮ ✉ Talk page 00:37, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

A matching article exists on three different Wikipedias. QuicoleJR (talk) 00:47, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

@QuicoleJR: Welcome! Since you're new here, you might like to look at this list I maintain of things that are different here from the way they are on English Wikipedia. The list itself is not a policy or guideline, but it links to some relevant policies and guidelines. If you have any questions about it, leave a message here or on my talk page! -- Auntof6 (talk) 04:23, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Selection of the U4C Building Committee

The next stage in the Universal Code of Conduct process is establishing a Building Committee to create the charter for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C). The Building Committee has been selected. Read about the members and the work ahead on Meta-wiki.

-- UCoC Project Team, 04:20, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

PR promotions?

Could I have a second opinion on "Alisa Genevieve", whom I believe is a PR agent putting up clients? Macdonald-ross (talk) 09:59, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

@Macdonald-ross: Without a doubt, and oddly enough, their writing style matches User:KyurPju who is not blocked, but stopped editing after both being spoken to and they had an article deleted for being advertisement.

They both put an article in place in one shot, including references, and have the same errors in their references (using advertisements and not reliable sources). There are no re-writes, mistakes or any issues that cause them to go back for correction, so yes, it's either a PR agent / sock / ChatGP. Wekeepwhatwekill  ^Spe_ak! 12:33, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

I think these are all advertising and can be deleted. Lights and freedom (talk) 16:44, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Also, Waft Studios' Instagram account is advertising a Wikipedia promotion service: [1] Lights and freedom (talk) 20:25, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Good work @Lights and freedom: the area code in their phone number (+91) is from India. Think we've found our spammer ! Wekeepwhatwekill  ^Spe_ak! 17:15, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Category "Activists"

I protest this category, which has no general or agreed meaning. Categories for pages should always be comprehensible, and we should have a system for discussing those which seem out of place. In the category: "Activist" is a random set of biographies which someone has though proper to include in the category. There is a sense in which almost everyone in a wiki is notable or else there would not be a page on them. Alternatively, they might be limited by their political activity, in which case many of the present biographies should come out. Because the term was not discussed, just put up by an IP, I think we should limit new categories to those which have been discussed and about which there is demonstrable agreement. Macdonald-ross (talk) 07:37, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

I agree its very unsatisfactory as an undifferentiated category. I'm doing my best to put articles into more specific categories. In particular I dont think it's sensible to put people into both Politician categories and Activist categories unless there is some clear distinction. But its been going for 12 years and its well populated. I dont think we are going to delete it, so we need to manage it. Rathfelder (talk) 15:01, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

A map that marks the boundary of a (particular) administrative division "hromada"

There is an infobox [2] at Ukrainian-wiki. Can that exact map-with-markings be moved to an article at Simple-wiki? Can that be done by an IP-user? 2001:2020:31D:B9F3:D062:E4FB:606A:53D7 (talk) 19:23, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

• Another good example:
  

This version [simple.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bilozerka_(hromada)&oldid=8866006] of Bilozerka (hromada).--The map from English-wiki [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilozerka_settlement_hromada], is not part of an infobox. Can that map, easily be moved to the Simple-wiki article? 2001:2020:327:8F43:113F:8CA8:30BB:B2E2 (talk) 16:31, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 Done - looks like a big step has been taken for now. Thanks.

• A better example?
  

"Beryslav Hromada is a hromada ... .

Other websites: Map on Wikimedia Commons ". 2001:2020:327:8F43:24E8:18C1:C8AB:1528 (talk) 02:25, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

"Beryslav Hromada is a hromada ... .

Other websites: Map on Wikimedia Commons ". 2001:2020:327:8F43:24E8:18C1:C8AB:1528 (talk) 02:29, 8 June 2023 (UTC)/ 2001:2020:327:8F43:24E8:18C1:C8AB:1528 (talk) 02:32, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Messed up table

The Magic Weekend Wikipedia page, has a messed up total summery table. 2A02:C7C:AE33:9800:995C:E944:89D8:228 (talk) 13:33, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Setting boxes as collapsed

All large boxes should be set as collapsed as the default. They are usually brought over from En wiki, and list many pages we do not have. One which irritates me is the infobox for Ancient Philosophers. Unfortunately my attempts to set it as "collapsed" have failed. I'm not too good at these things! Could someone more adept turn to the box, and set it for me? Macdonald-ross (talk) 07:09, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

@Macdonald-ross Can you point out a page that has it open? Are you talking about the "authority control" box? Lights and freedom (talk) 15:07, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Ancient Greek philosophy. Macdonald-ross (talk) 15:15, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

I collapsed it. Lights and freedom (talk) 15:24, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Proxy blocking

This nonsense going on with en:WP:LTA/GRP is not only ridiculous; it's potentially avoidable. Take a look at 102.50.254.145; today they were blocked for vandalism here at Simple English, but at the English Wikipedia, the same IP has been blocked for being an open proxy since 31 May. Most of GRP's other IPs are proxies. Why aren't proxies preemptively blocked here? Our policy on open proxies says "Open proxies allow malicious users to rapidly change IP addresses, causing continuous disruption that cannot be stopped by administrators. Several such attacks have occurred on Wikimedia projects, causing disruption and occupying administrators who would otherwise deal with other concerns" and "Open or anonymising proxies may be blocked from editing for any period at any time". Nythar^T.C 09:24, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Pinging ST47, who operates ST47ProxyBot. Nythar^T.C 09:36, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

@Nythar Proxies should be blocked preemptively technically, per the NOP policy. However, the Simple English Wikipedia don't have a proxy blocking block such as the one on the English Wikipedia.

I do see a problem though. ST47ProxyBot is an admin bot. ST47 is not an admin here. While the Simple English Wikipedia's bot policy doesn't mention anything about adminbots (since they are rare AFAIK), I think a local admin should be the one running an admin bot here. — *Fehufangą ♮ ✉ Talk page 11:49, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

I agree with all of what you're saying. I pinged ST47 because I think they can help us get a bot set up here; it would take some time, but we might at least be able to get started. Nythar^T.C 12:06, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Import request

Hi, Could an admin import en:Template:Infobox film award to Template:Infobox film award please?, Also could I ask do I need to have templates imported or can I just create these myself ?,

I'd be more than happy to create these myself but I'm sure someone somewhere told me I had to come here?, Anyway thanks, –Davey2010^Talk 16:06, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

@Davey2010: I've imported it, but it's just a redirect to Template:Infobox award. When it's just a redirect like this, there's no problem creating it yourself. If it's not a redirect, I'd say it's six of one, half a dozen of the other. Importing is probably easier, and we don't mind doing them. There are just some things you need to check after an import, things like categories, making sure you get all the subtemplates and the doc page, and probably other things. -- Auntof6 (talk) 17:09, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Auntof6, Ah so sorry I didn't even check the en template so didn't realise it was a redirect sorry about that, Okie dokie I'm currently creating an article so once I've done i'll quickly amend that page,

So could I ask what's the point of imports as in I guess why does the history need to be there ? Sorry I don't mean that in an obtuse way I guess I just don't understand the purpose of imports,

Oops sorry I'll head to AN in future :), Thanks, –Davey2010^Talk 17:14, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

@Davey2010: I'm not sure what page you are talking about amending, but the template I imported should probably remain a redirect. There isn't a need for a separate template for different kinds of awards.

The point of imports? To save typing or copy/pasting? To make sure things are the same? To avoid re-inventing the wheel? I don't know that the history needs to be there; you just get it with the import. Actually, not even all the history necessarily, because you can import just the most recent version without earlier history. Importing all the history can take a really, really long time. -- Auntof6 (talk) 17:22, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

That kinda makes sense kinda doesn't - I get it if you can't be bothered copy/pasting but my entire work here is literally copy/pasting (and then amending in preview) so there's nothing I gain my coming here asking - In fact I lose time by coming here because it's took an hour for it to be imported and I could've done it an hour ago and had the article completed, Also the time it's taken for me to come here and write this again I could've easily just done it myself and had mostly everything done,

What I'm getting at is alls I'm doing is making someone do work and use a tool for no specific purpose or real benefit to either of us?,

I should also say I'm not having a dig at you or admins here - We all have a life and none of us can be here 24/7, Anyway I'll probably stick to creating these myself but nonetheless thank you for your help today it is greatly appreciated, Take care, Warm Regards –Davey2010^Talk 18:13, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

@Davey2010: Actually, on re-reading, I realize that the admins' noticeboard is the place to request imports rather than here. -- Auntof6 (talk) 17:10, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Proxy blocking (collateral damage?)

Pre-emptive proxy-blocking? Does that mean that I (and maybe a few other somewhat-talented wikipedia-users) will lose access? If that is the case, then please leave one talk-page open, so that one can apply for: "I would like to add text (or change text) on page such-and-such. Please unblock my preemptive-block, for any time-frame, so that I can make the suggested changes."--If I get preemptively blocked, and nothing else related - works out: "I enjoyed my stay. Thanks". 2001:2020:327:8F43:553A:D521:E93A:3BC (talk) 16:08, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Vector 2022: change vs edit

On the old vector skin, the two buttons to edit a page say "Change" and "Change source". On Vector 2022, they say "Edit" and "Change source". Should "Edit" be changed to "Change"? Lights and freedom (talk) 18:42, 8 June 2023 (UTC)