Wikipedia:Simple talk

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Names for tropical stormsEdit

  • We should align all our terms with En. They do not at present, and there are a whole choice of terms. Storms, cyclones, hurricanes, typhoons, tropical storms... If we can get a consensus to follow En on this, it will make admins jobs easier. Macdonald-ross (talk) 07:42, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
That's interesting. How does it affect admin jobs when articles have different names? Darkfrog24 (talk) 11:36, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
Or, put another way, how does it affect admins more than it affects anyone else? --Auntof6 (talk) 11:58, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
Hurricanes should be named when they originate in the Atlantic and usually hit the U.S. and Mexico or when they hit in the Pacific and hit Japan, China or the Koreas. That's what I heard. Cyclones originate in the Indian Ocean I think. I don't know about the rest. Also, how does it affect admins @Macdonald-ross? I don't seem to understand. At the worst, it might affect editors creating dupe pages and categories failing due to debated naming. Ely - Talk 13:43, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
  • Unless we have a reason, we should follow En. Macdonald-ross (talk) 13:49, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
    And could you send a link to the EN-wiki consensus @Macdonald-ross? Ely - Talk 15:28, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
I already do that, Macdonald-ross. For example, I write lots of frog articles, but the scientists sometimes change the scientific name. I will give the article a different name than the article if, for example, the frog has been renamed Boana awesomefrog from Hypsiboas awesomefrog. I'm just curious about the admins and their problems because it's a part of the community. Darkfrog24 (talk) 19:12, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
  • In common sense, every change in terminology raises a question of verifiability. Admins are not necessarily subject-matter experts, and often cannot judge whether choice of alternative terms are correct. "Follow En" is just a rubric to make decisions easier. It's what we do in doubtful cases because they have many more subject-matter experts than we do.
In the case of Linnaean biological names any changes must align with the International taxonomical commission's decisions. There may be a time-lag before an official decision is ratified. In other words, there's a structure which deals with the problem. Using common names raises other problems because a widespread species can easily have over a dozen local names, and we have a widespread readership.
Any changes from a standard system of names is going to raise questions as to whether the changes are justified and whether they collectively make sense. Inside the projects on En wiki are many discussions about the naming and classification of their topics. We benefit by following them. Macdonald-ross (talk) 08:03, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
I don't see any EN consensus @Macdonald-ross. See this page. Ely - Talk 08:17, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
I think you are diverting the topic. All I said was "We should align all our terms with En. They do not at present, and there are a whole choice of terms. Storms, cyclones, hurricanes, typhoons, tropical storms... If we can get a consensus to follow En on this, it will make admins jobs easier. Macdonald-ross (talk) 12:23, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
Yes, but there is no consensus on en. I checked the category as well. While I am fine with "We should align all our terms with En. They do not at present, and there are a whole choice of terms." I cannot agree with the tropical storm stuff as there is no en consensus. And you still haven't told how it will benefit admins specifically. Ely - Talk 13:35, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Well, so long as we make full use of their weather portal, and their WikiProjects, it would be unreasonable to ask for more. Macdonald-ross (talk) 06:53, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Any takers?Edit

This article is a Asian History article titled State of Sindh. I did what I could to fix all of the article, however, I have to go to work for a 14 hour shift. I had to remove the gallery and some other image links as they were broken. If anything can find them and put them back in, I think this article can be done. Thanks. PDLTalk to me!OMG, What have I done? (Pronouns: He, him, his) 03:45, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do. Ely - Talk 04:04, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

few questionsEdit

i got few questions over here

pls reply there so i can see it

anytime thx

answers should be under each question so i know which is being answerd, thx — Preceding unsigned comment added by GovGuide (talkcontribs) 05:24, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Complexity toolsEdit

Someone in the WLW contest brought this up while translating an otherwise eligible page from a more complex wiki: Is there a tool that filters out the BE 1500 words in a text and highlights the others?

Wikinews has something similar for links. It turns funky ones green. If there is I'd use the heck out of that thing. Darkfrog24 (talk) 17:23, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

The English on the typical WP page is usually quite poor as prose. Basic English was played with when this wiki was young. It was formulated 100 years ago, and rarely has words necessary in modern science & technology, nor modern idiomatic use of language. Simple sentence structure works wonders for the readers. Of course it makes sense to use common words, and avoid complex constructions where one can. Macdonald-ross (talk) 17:45, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
The BE 500 words are not sufficient. It is often good to use direct language instead of passive language. Look at the verbs: better to say "You need a telescope or binoculars", rather than "It cannot be seen with the naked eye". (same point made in respect of Neptune discussion). Macdonald-ross (talk) 08:58, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
Even better would be something like "People need a telescope or binoculars to see it", because using second person is not the right tone for an encyclopedia (see Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Avoid second-person pronouns). --Auntof6 (talk) 16:24, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
Apart from the fact that most of the word-lists cited (BE850,BE1500) are no good once it comes to more advanced scientific topics, there's a different question: Are we counting "words", or "word forms": example: "be" 1 word, but "be,am,are,is,being,been,was,were,aren't, possibly ain't" (10 word forms). Dividing the "1500 words" by possibly 8-10 forms per word doesn't leave use with many words to use. So the point shouldn't be to rely on a word list, but to use common sense, and explain well. --Eptalon (talk) 16:32, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
Another issue with the list has to do with the fact that many English words have more than one meaning, and sometimes a word is simple when used in one way but not when used in another. That's especially true with idioms. --Auntof6 (talk) 16:04, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
Which if not used with the correct before or after it can be very confusing as well and even more so for someone who is not a native speaker of English. Just like the different forms of English alone all have different meanings. Australian, American, British, Indian, etc., may use the same word but will have a different meaning based on the country it’s being used in. PDLTalk to me!OMG, What have I done? (Pronouns: He, him, his) 18:44, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

The 2022 Community Wishlist Survey will happen in JanuaryEdit

SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 00:23, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

New Stub - AfricaEdit

Greetings all - I wanted to see if anyone had an issue with a new stub called Africa-stub? We have stubs for a lot of major countries and with everything going and also a lot of Nigerian articles, I feel this would be a good stub to have so it can be sorted to Africa and those from that area or have expertise in that geographic area can have a list of articles to work on. Thoughts? PDLTalk to me!OMG, What have I done? (Pronouns: He, him, his) 03:11, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

I'd support, but are there over a thousand articles in need of it? Apart from that, see the Simple Stub Project. Ely - Talk 03:14, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
@Elytrian I am very familiar with the project. I tag a lot of articles. There does not need to be over a thousand articles to have a stub. I can tell you off the top of my head, there are at least 200 pages so far. PDLTalk to me!OMG, What have I done? (Pronouns: He, him, his) 03:16, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
@PotsdamLamb you might want to see this. Ely - Talk 03:29, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
And? I know all of that. It’s 2 years old and we have expanded so I have a right to get others input on it. So if you support it why are you trying to derail the discussion? PDLTalk to me!OMG, What have I done? (Pronouns: He, him, his) 03:35, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
Yeesh. Calm down. I'm just telling you to take a look at what happened last time. It was going to be added, but never made it. Ely - Talk 03:38, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
The reason I said that is because both links you have shown me are things I’m already aware of. Don’t take offense please. I’ve been doing this for a long time :). This is a new time and a lot of stuff can use that. PDLTalk to me!OMG, What have I done? (Pronouns: He, him, his) 03:52, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
@PotsdamLamb: Please bring this up in the place designated for these requests. Also please note:
  • The correct question is not "does anyone have an issue if I create this?": that implies that you are going to create it if no one objects, and that is not how it works The correct question would be something like "is the community willing to approve this?"
  • Yes, you pretty much do need at least a thousand articles. We keep the number of stub types to a minimum, and it is not necessary to have a stub type just because something is a major topic.
  • Are you personally going to work on Africa stubs, or is there another user planning to? If not, the stub will likely not be created.
Finally, keep in mind that you don't need a dedicated stub type to work in a subject area. But go ahead and make the request in the correct place and see what happens. --Auntof6 (talk) 08:15, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
@Auntof6 I don’t see anywhere where I said anything you mentioned in #1 above. Absolutely no where did I say I would create it regardless. Nor did I even come close to stating that so please re-read my proposal and correct your statement. As far as the last one yes I plan on working on them but we should have a stub for each continent minimum (IMO). According to the count from 2+ years ago there are over 3k articles that can go into once numerous search terms are completed. These can be actors animals cities towns etc. I will repost it at the forum where no one really goes to or reads. Thanks. PDLTalk to me!OMG, What have I done? (Pronouns: He, him, his) 08:23, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
JUST FORGET THIS as it seems the category (Redacted) never wants to expand anything according to every time something was asked on the talk page. So this is withdrawn. PDLTalk to me!OMG, What have I done? (Pronouns: He, him, his) 08:53, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Outdated articleEdit

I was wondering if anyone wanted to update the Scratch (programming language) page. It is very outdated. SoyokoAnis - talk 17:28, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

I'll check it out, I've used it quite a bit. Ely - Talk 12:49, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

thread subscribeEdit

How do I view the threads on talkpages I have subscribed to? Tsugaru Let's Talk! :) 🍁 20:38, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

If you mean pages on your watchlist, you would go to the talk page to see them. The watchlist will show you individual changes that have been made since the last time you looked at the page, so you can sometimes see the thread names. Does that answer your question? --Auntof6 (talk) 23:49, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Results for the 2021 Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees electionEdit

Read in other languages

Thank you to everyone who participated in the 2021 Board election. The Elections Committee has reviewed the votes of the 2021 Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees election, organized to select four new trustees. A record 6,873 people from across 214 projects cast their valid votes. The following four candidates received the most support:

  1. Rosie Stephenson-Goodknight
  2. Victoria Doronina
  3. Dariusz Jemielniak
  4. Lorenzo Losa

While these candidates have been ranked through the community vote, they are not yet appointed to the Board of Trustees. They still need to pass a successful background check and meet the qualifications outlined in the Bylaws. The Board has set a tentative date to appoint new trustees at the end of this month.

Read the full announcement here. Xeno (WMF) (talk) 02:08, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Darya SindhuEdit

the rfd tag keep getting removed, can the page be protected? Tsugaru Let's Talk! :) 🍁 02:43, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

@つがる If the page is at risk of deletion, is protection really nesscary? SoyokoAnis - talk 19:35, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
Semi-Protection would to be stop the RFD template from being removed. --Tsugaru Let's Talk! :) 🍁 19:48, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Call for Candidates for the Movement Charter Drafting Committee ending 14 September 2021Edit

Movement Strategy announces the Call for Candidates for the Movement Charter Drafting Committee. The Call opens August 2, 2021 and closes September 14, 2021.

The Committee is expected to represent diversity in the Movement. Diversity includes gender, language, geography, and experience. This comprises participation in projects, affiliates, and the Wikimedia Foundation.

English fluency is not required to become a member. If needed, translation and interpretation support is provided. Members will receive an allowance to offset participation costs. It is US$100 every two months.

We are looking for people who have some of the following skills:

  • Know how to write collaboratively. (demonstrated experience is a plus)
  • Are ready to find compromises.
  • Focus on inclusion and diversity.
  • Have knowledge of community consultations.
  • Have intercultural communication experience.
  • Have governance or organization experience in non-profits or communities.
  • Have experience negotiating with different parties.

The Committee is expected to start with 15 people. If there are 20 or more candidates, a mixed election and selection process will happen. If there are 19 or fewer candidates, then the process of selection without election takes place.

Will you help move Wikimedia forward in this important role? Submit your candidacy here. Please contact strategy2030 with questions.

Xeno (WMF) 17:02, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Server switchEdit

SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 00:45, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Talk to the Community TechEdit

Read this message in another languagePlease help translate to your language


As we have recently announced, we, the team working on the Community Wishlist Survey, would like to invite you to an online meeting with us. It will take place on September 15th, 23:00 UTC on Zoom, and will last an hour. Click here to join.



The meeting will not be recorded or streamed. Notes without attribution will be taken and published on Meta-Wiki. The presentation (first three points in the agenda) will be given in English.

We can answer questions asked in English, French, Polish, and Spanish. If you would like to ask questions in advance, add them on the Community Wishlist Survey talk page or send to

Natalia Rodriguez (the Community Tech manager) will be hosting this meeting.

Invitation link

See you! SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 03:03, 11 September 2021 (UTC)


Hi! How do I connect items to Wikidata? Quite a few articles I created have been popping up in notices with "Mike Peel" or "Pi bot" connecting it to Wikidata. How do I do this?

Ely - Talk 12:42, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Elytrian, when you create an article, see the area left of the page. Under "in other languages", there should be an "Add links" button. Press that. If the article you created is on enwiki, enter "enwiki" in the top box and the title of the page on enwiki in the bottom box. Then press "Link with page". It will say which pages the page is being linked to, you just need to press "Confirm". Now, your page is linked to Wikidata. --Ferien (talk) 12:57, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
@Elytrian: A tip about this: Make sure that the subject of the page you're linking is an exact match for the subject of the one you link to. For various reasons, sometimes there isn't an exact subject match for an article here. Also, a page on enwiki with the same title as a page here isn't necessarily about the same thing. The title of the matching page may be different, and that's okay. --Auntof6 (talk) 18:40, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
Yeah. Our article "Swirlies" was about sticking someone's head in a toilet, and it linked to the article about the band "en:The Swirlies." Darkfrog24 (talk) 21:03, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Question on UserPageEdit

hello wish you a great time how can i give my name on my User page a color, like your name displays with color not just simple black color. Sakura emad (talk) 18:14, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

{{DISPLAYTITLE:User:}} use this. after the user, insert whatever you want to put as your title. Colored characters are made using the <span> tag. See my page or TDKR Chicago 101's page for examples. Ely - Talk 09:57, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
  Done Thank you dear Sakura emad (talk) 22:41, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Why my created articles are not shown in google searchEdit

I have created some article so why it is not searchable in google search 2405:201:3000:4110:DC1B:D073:8320:77F (talk) 09:21, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Articles you create don't automatically go to google. It depends on when google discovers and adds the page. -Djsasso (talk) 10:41, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
Thankyou for your reply but please undo your move because as all citations his orignal name is Brij Kishore Sharma "Tara" not Brij Kishore Sharma — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2405:201:3000:4110:dc1b:d073:8320:77f (talkcontribs) 07:48, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

How to add simple wikipedia page to English wikipedia page categoryEdit

I want to add simple wikipedia page to a english wikipedia category so how I can do it — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2405:201:3000:4110:dc1b:d073:8320:77f (talkcontribs) 07:51, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Hello, and welcome to our Wikipedia. English Wikipedia has many more pages than we do, thir category system is different. So if a category you think should exist here doesn't exist, there are two options: Either you find another category that fits, or you create the new category. Note that categories need to have at least three pages (or categories) in them. If you you tell us what the page, is, we can also help you finding a category for it. --Eptalon (talk) 11:28, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Page Move RequestEdit

Sir there is two person with on name one is poet and one is politician see this and so I want that please change the poet's wikipedia page name because as all references his orignal name is Brij Kishore Sharma "Tara" and it is difficult know who is "Tara" and who is sharma so please move this page Thankyou — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2405:201:3000:4110:dc1b:d073:8320:77f (talkcontribs) 08:24, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Change Simple Wikipedia to English WikipediaEdit

Please I want help to write a english wikipedia from a Simple Wikipedia can anyone help me If any user wants to help me so please give the username in my talkpage and after I give the article name and you have to create English Wikipedia by some reason I am unable to create that page I know how to create article in english wikipedia but I am unable to do it so please can you create that article — Preceding unsigned comment added by Educreationbilaspur (talkcontribs) 13:57, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

What? --Derpdart56 (talk) 13:58, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
@Derpdart56: What he's saying is that he's unable to make an article in the English Wikipedia? Dingothegorg 14:03, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
... --Derpdart56 (talk) 14:04, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
Hello, like here there are two cases where articles cannot be made: 1) Users who have shown bad bahavior in the past are blocked from editing; depending on what they did, the block may be temoporary, or it may be permanent 2) Certain aticles cannot be created by certain user groups; this usually means, that in the past, there has been a lot of vandalism / edit warring (by different editors) for the given article. Again, the block may be temporary or permanent.--Eptalon (talk) 14:19, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
@Educreationbilaspur: I think I know what the problem might be. I see you have made exactly three changes on the Regular English Wikipedia ( and that you are not blocked. Sometimes, in controversial areas, new Wikipedia accounts are not allowed to edit or create certain articles. This is because people were making bad edits, as Eptalon says above, getting blocked, and then sneaking back in with new accounts, pretending to be different people. The Regular English Wikipedia admins made a new rule: People can only edit controversial articles if they have been on the Regular English Wikipedia for 30 days and made 500 edits.
You need to be on the English Wikipedia for 30 days and make 500 good edits. I say make the best of your time there. Have some fun. Participate in an RfC. If you make fifteen edits a day or so, you'll hit 500 in almost exactly 30 days. The time will fly by! Darkfrog24 (talk) 17:40, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

How to make this article more better by which it can be undeleteEdit I want to know where is problem in refernces or my writing style I want to know that Is the subject will notable by that refernces — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2405:201:3000:4110:510D:B8DB:83E4:A4CB (talkcontribs) 14:13, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

1) Some of your references aren't good. For example, you cite Wikinews. Wikinews is not a reliable source. What you should do is go look at the sources the Wikinews article uses and, if they're good, put those in the Simple English Wikipedia article.
2) The Deccan Herald and Times of India look like the exact same source. Are they both relaying the same thing from a third party. WP:SAYWHEREYOUGOTIT applies, but this is really one source and not two. Also, Bonadea says those sources are fake anyway.
3) Can you find some real, solid sources? Darkfrog24 (talk) 17:46, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
@Darkfrog24 I Helped that Wikipedia Page and added as many sources as possible and I want to say you that please recheck and then reply that the page is good or not because I have added some more sources and removed wrong sources Mr. Hindi (talk) 10:06, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Why doesn't simple.wikipedia use Community Tech bot?Edit

I'm just wondering but why? On the English Wikivoyage, whenever a commons file is going to be deleted, it leaves a message on the relevant talk page about that. Then later if it needs to be uploaded locally (such as FoP issues or something although not for copyright violations), it can be rather done in a timely manner instead of waiting and then you'll see a red link. SHB2000 (talk) 22:23, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Because this is a simple wiki? SoyokoAnis - talk 16:34, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
Simple means the vocabulary, not anything else. I guess SHB2000 could have simplified his message though. Ely - Talk 17:23, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
@Elytrian: Simple language here also means sentence structure. --Auntof6 (talk) 18:06, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
@SHB2000: can you point to one or two instances (in the last few month of editing here), where using the bot would have beeen beneficial (I am thinking along the lines of a page losing an image, because it got deleted from commons).--Eptalon (talk) 18:13, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
The thing is, no one would know if it got deleted unless CTB would notify us, which is what is does on the English Wikivoyage. I'd presume there's many images deleted and no one's noticed. SHB2000 (talk) 22:23, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
Also for more info on that, see m:Community Tech/Commons deletion notification bot SHB2000 (talk) 23:31, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
could've... SHB2000 (talk) 23:30, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Casual stuff.Edit

Why are there so many 181s here??? Also, does anybody even read this page? It seems to full of biological stuff and North Carolina. Ely - Talk 04:17, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

This list is automatically generated, and only moderately useful. Example: List of ISO-639-1 codes, over 200 of the 600-odd codes are attributed. They are used for languages. 'nn' is Nynorsk (one of the two forms of Norwegian, similar to Swedish). 'nr' is South-Ndebele...--Eptalon (talk) 08:51, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
This page as Eptalon mentions is just updated based on how many links go to pages. However, its not very useful as for lots of articles those number are raised up really high because the link is on a template that is used on many pages. -Djsasso (talk) 14:55, 15 September 2021 (UTC)


What is the   WTF? template used for? Dingothegorg 15:12, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

I guess it is used to show emotion towards something somebody said. SoyokoAnis - talk 16:33, 15 September 2021 (UTC)


Hi everyone!

I just wanted to introduce myself before I get started editing here! I’m especially interested in dinosaurs and dinosaur related articles, which is where I plan on spending most of my time. I would also greatly appreciate any advice. Thanks! Don Jon Arnold (talk) 01:14, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Welcome. You can start by requesting a new username in Special:GlobalRenameRequest. Darubrub (Let me know) 01:18, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
Why would (s)he want a rename? Ely - Talk 03:22, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
@Elytrian: I had the same thought until I saw the actual user name. I'm going to block, as they did on enwiki. --Auntof6 (talk) 03:35, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Unsigned ScriptEdit

hello 👋 hope you have a great time

i have a problem: i installed unsignedhelper.js in my common.js but it does not work even though i added it in a proper way.
Thank you for helping me 😊🌸 🌸 Sakura emad 💖 (talk) 13:28, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Dark ModeEdit

Could dark mode ever come to the Simple English Wikipedia? Dingothegorg 14:33, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

I honestly don't think so. Simple is far behind en-wiki. Perhaps someone could make a script that could do this (though I doubt a script can do this). But dark mode would be epic. 💠Ely - Talk💠 14:54, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
I think it could be added, since the one on en-wiki simply inverts the colors. This is true even for images, but they do get inverted back into what they normally are. Washing Machine of Lies (talk) 12:59, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

How do I practice my edit skills?Edit

I'm not very good at it. --Derpdart56 (talk) 14:34, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Hello Dear @Derpdart56 can you explain a little more 🙏 so you can help me to understand you. 😊 🌸 Sakura emad 💖 (talk) 14:36, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
I keep making stub pages and I'm not good at sources and formatting.--Derpdart56 (talk) 14:38, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
@Derpdart56 ok let's start like that: first let's meet some Useful pages
First Part. 🌸 Sakura emad 💖 (talk) 14:48, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
Key content
  • Teahouse ask everything you need about wikipedia (English wikipedia)
🌸 Sakura emad 💖 (talk) 14:51, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
Also you might be interested to look at:
as they helpful too. 🌸 Sakura emad 💖 (talk) 14:56, 17 September 2021 (UTC)